| Start Time |
Transcript |
Speaker |
| 00:00:00.0 |
How big is your graphic design education? What shape, what symbol, what image represents that graphic design education? We’ll be looking to sketch further within that. |
IJS |
| 00:00:14.8 |
Just use anywhere here? |
160 |
| 00:00:16.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:00:16.5 |
Yeah, okay. Um, yeah so, uh, first year, um, high expectations, uh, uh, just wanted to get on with the course. Was quite happy with that fact that I’d got on the course, um, uh, second year. Again, you need to climb – had a huge spike because one of the tutors, um, I’m not sure if you want me to say it, but one of the tutors, um… |
160 |
| 00:00:41.0 |
On the return [unclear – 0:00:43.4]. |
IJS |
| 00:00:44.9 |
Sure. Uh, one of the tutors described my work as being very high standard which was a huge confidence boost. |
160 |
| 00:00:51.3 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:00:51.5 |
Uh, that continued, um, second year, early in the second year, I think I was the only student looking at this, which was a gap. Massive confidence drop, uh, continued through, uh, placement here – didn’t do a placement. Um, self-employed, working for peanuts, for myself. |
160 |
| 00:01:12.0 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:01:13.0 |
[Unclear – 0:01:14.3], obviously – freelance design. Uh, yeah, it was okay. I didn’t realise just how hard it was. Um, yeah, coming back in here February, I had expectations. |
160 |
| 00:01:25.7 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:01:25.7 |
Um, knew it was going to be rocky and it doesn’t. It’s continued to be rocky but it’s, it’s [unclear – 0:01:36.5] rocky. |
160 |
| 00:01:37.7 |
Okay [unclear – 0:01:39.7]. So if that represents, that rocky, um, does it mean that, uh, graphic design education is kind of in that area? |
IJS |
| 00:01:48.6 |
Yeah. This is meant to be graphic design education. |
160 |
| 00:01:51.5 |
Okay. [Unclear – 0:01:53.6] because you’ve marked on there what are clearly challenges and highlights. So do you want to mark those on how you’d represent those challenges and highlights. |
IJS |
| 00:02:05.7 |
Where you’ve just explained? |
160 |
| 00:02:07.2 |
You can draw on it, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:02:08.4 |
Sure, yeah. |
160 |
| 00:02:09.4 |
Symbols. |
IJS |
| 00:02:10.2 |
Sure. |
160 |
| 00:02:10.2 |
Do whatever you want [unclear – 0:02:11.6]. |
IJS |
| 00:02:12.4 |
Um (rustling of sheet). |
160 |
| 00:02:52.5 |
And that was tutor feedback? |
IJS |
| 00:02:54.7 |
Tutor feedback. Do you want me to? |
160 |
| 00:02:55.9 |
Yeah (rustling of sheet) (phone ringing) what’s that say? |
IJS |
| 00:03:55.6 |
Uh, self-employed at this stage, not what I had planned. |
160 |
| 00:03:59.6 |
Okay (rustling of sheet) [unclear – 0:04:25.8]. |
IJS |
| 00:04:27.2 |
[Unclear – 0:04:28.0]. |
160 |
| 00:04:28.1 |
[Unclear – 0:04:29.3] right. So what, what’s that meant to be? |
IJS |
| 00:04:32.6 |
[Unclear – 0:04:33.9] yeah, because it’s so up and down. Uh, [unclear – 0:04:39.4] uh, but it’s more just I’m not as strong as I would want to be at this stage. Or prefer to be a stronger designer [unclear – 0:04:52.5] mediocre ability. Well I wouldn’t say mediocre, it’s [unclear – 0:04:56.3] at this stage, some [ unclear – 0:04:59.3]. Some projects I love to show off, other projects I just, um, it’s all [unclear – 0:05:04.7] wouldn’t put it in my portfolio if I had to [unclear – 0:05:06.7]. |
160 |
| 00:05:07.0 |
Mmm-m. |
IJS |
| 00:05:07.5 |
So [unclear – 0:05:08.8] journey, um, the… the effect this has [unclear – 0:05:14.3] constantly up and down. Sort of, uh, very tumultuous sort of, yeah. |
160 |
| 00:05:23.7 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:05:24.3 |
And then you’re holding onto your expectations of this. |
160 |
| 00:05:27.5 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:05:29.1 |
In terms of your own [unclear – 0:05:30.6]. |
160 |
| 00:05:31.4 |
Right. So, um, graphic design education on there and you’ve got some highlights, uh, some challenges. If you had to divide it up any way you wanted to, so it could be by time, by, um, mindset, conception or project [unclear – 0:05:53.4]. But to break it into divisions, what would they be? |
IJS |
| 00:05:57.3 |
Um, just thinking there (long pause) it’s probably the first division be here, before the… even… timeline. |
160 |
| 00:06:07.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:06:09.0 |
So division one. |
160 |
| 00:06:10.0 |
What is that? |
IJS |
| 00:06:12.9 |
Division one is, uh, knowing that you’re on the course. You’ve not actually started the course yet, but knowing that you’re on the course… sort of… in terms of all the grand scale of life, knowing that you’re making progress towards where you want to be. |
160 |
| 00:06:24.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:06:25.4 |
First year, uh, division two (rustling of sheet). Sort of like… great. You have got, uh…it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like chugging along, so, um, yeah (rustling of sheet). That’s a train. |
160 |
| 00:06:49.2 |
I know [laugh]. |
IJS |
| 00:06:50.3 |
(Rustling of sheet) [laugh] Chugging along. |
160 |
| 00:06:55.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:06:56.1 |
Just surf. Learn… and you hope generally [unclear – 0:06:58.2] how you’re doing, sort of thing. |
160 |
| 00:07:01.1 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:07:01.8 |
Um… |
160 |
| 00:07:04.8 |
Is that is…is something about that, that, that… |
IJS |
| 00:07:08.9 |
Yeah. It’s chugging along.. chugging along… Uh, it’s, uh, it’s waves of motion. It’s, um, you are, you are steady, you know? You’re on that track but you are steady and you are continuing to roll. |
160 |
| 00:07:21.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:07:22.4 |
Um, there’s no…dunno, I wouldn’t say there’s no stopping you but there’s…you know you’re happy and things are going well and you’re really proud of your… |
160 |
| 00:07:30.1 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:07:30.4 |
Um, so, uh, it’s still picking up, um, so (rustling of sheet) and that’s a peregrine falcon. |
160 |
| 00:07:44.4 |
That’s a what? |
IJS |
| 00:07:46.0 |
A peregrine falcon. |
160 |
| 00:07:46.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:07:46.9 |
So sort of flapping on their flight path. Peregrine falcons what they do is they catch a… I can’t remember the name… thermal, and they spiral. |
160 |
| 00:08:00.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:08:00.2 |
Spiral… and then they dive bomb like that. So that would explain [unclear]. This would explain the dive-bomb back down. [unclear]. |
160 |
| 00:08:11.0 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:08:11.5 |
You know? Nothing [unclear]. |
160 |
| 00:08:11.8 |
Mmm-hm (rustling of sheet). |
IJS |
| 00:08:22.8 |
Uh… yeah (rustling of sheet). |
160 |
| 00:08:35.8 |
[Unclear – 0:08:36.2]. |
IJS |
| 00:08:36.2 |
Yeah, um, so (rustling of sheet) Fatman… because Fatman was [unclear] and destruction, and it’s like [unclear] really not happy… you’ve caused this yourself. So yeah – maybe remorse. So, um [unclear] remorse [unclear] I could draw, but still remorse [unclear- 0:09:12.7] that you’ve [unclear]. Um, yeah, not, like, life’s over with, but just sort of like in terms of the grand scale of things, I’m supposed to continue like that. Instead – a huge massive dip [unclear – 0:09:31.4], I’m just kind of (exhaling), uh, chugging along. But this time it’s more like [unclear – 0:09:37.7] percent. |
160 |
| 00:09:38.8 |
Oh yeah [unclear – 0:09:44.9]. |
IJS |
| 00:09:47.1 |
[unclear – 0:09:47.8]. The effort of pushing yourself along. um, third year. |
160 |
| 00:09:51.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:09:52.2 |
[Unclear – 0:09:53.2]. |
160 |
| 00:09:53.5 |
Yeah [unclear – 0:09:54.8] yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:09:54.7 |
Sure. So last year. [unclear – 0:09:59.3] (rustling of sheet) I come up here and… probably shouldn’t be this steep, um, but, uh, picking up (rustling of sheet). This one a reference to, uh, not the fact that, um, physically you’re [unclear – 0:10:26.4] your expectation and back on track with what you hope to achieve, um, ease. [unclear]. |
160 |
| 00:10:40.9 |
You’re climbing over some already? |
IJS |
| 00:10:47.5 |
Yeah. Already climbing over some (rustling of sheet). [unclear]. Plateau at some stage. (rustling of sheet) |
160 |
| 00:11:26.6 |
So you’re looking forward to that plateau? |
IJS |
| 00:11:28.4 |
Yeah, definitely. |
160 |
| 00:11:31.3 |
Great. Graphic design is changing [unclear – 0:11:38.0]. Um, the rest of your life then, looking ahead, let’s put a little bit aside, um, professional life. Think about, when you think about your life ahead now in a wider sense [unclear – 0:11:58.5] so that could be cultural, religious, creative, all, all those things. Family, everything. Is there… |
IJS |
| 00:12:05.0 |
Yeah. |
160 |
| 00:12:05.0 |
Is there an image that sums that up? What do you see now? If you see anything, are there certain things in it, [unclear – 0:12:16.2]. Come back to professional. |
IJS |
| 00:12:18.5 |
[Unclear – 0:12:19.6]. |
160 |
| 00:12:20.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:12:20.3 |
[Unclear – 0:12:20.3]. |
160 |
| 00:12:21.0 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:12:21.7 |
[Unclear – 0:12:21.8]. |
160 |
| 00:12:34.6 |
[Unclear – 0:12:23.5]. |
IJS |
| 00:12:35.0 |
(Rustling of sheet) so, um, [unclear – 0:12:29.1] uh [unclear – 0:12:33.7]. |
160 |
| 00:12:35.7 |
Whatever occurs to you. |
IJS |
| 00:12:36.9 |
(rustling of sheet). I’d say they’re paths. Stems. Um, this stage here, um, you asked what I do, um, potentially in the future [unclear]. |
160 |
| 00:13:12.2 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:13:12.2 |
I think there’s too, too many variables. |
160 |
| 00:13:15.3 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:13:16.0 |
Um, so. Do you want me to write that?. |
160 |
| 00:13:17.8 |
Yeah (rustling of sheet) just thinking maybe one of these. |
IJS |
| 00:13:28.5 |
No, uh, I think maybe, um, uh, kind of like butterfly flap… There’s just too many varying micro scale. |
160 |
| 00:13:37.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:13:37.9 |
The very matter of things. So, you know, uh, something as simple as one project that I’m really happy with. Just need to do more projects like that. That might not be very good but it’s still a matter of the, uh, the fact that the project that I really, I get praised for, I was really happy with myself, still makes me want to work on that kind of [unclear – 0:13:59.4]. So I would force, push myself into that area, um, possibly, uh, either and, um, still not great at it… and, you know, there’s no work… um… no money… no job or, uh, you know, open-the-door-type-thing or straight through to…yeah. I eventually get good at it or I eventually to, um, [unclear – 0:14:27.0] sort of, um, design, design cultural, um, the way of design comes around to your way of things. |
160 |
| 00:14:35.2 |
The way of design? |
IJS |
| 00:14:36.3 |
Yeah. So it would be a bit sort of similar to art… post death… It actually seems new. |
160 |
| 00:14:44.8 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:14:46.6 |
The artist [unclear – 0:14:47.4]. It would be the work of, uh, I think it’s Dutch, Dutch designer. I can’t remember. I don’t know exactly [unclear – 0:14:57.0] – [unclear – 0:15:01.8]. Like, what happens is… it’s, it’s, as if it was designed by computer in the age before computers. |
160 |
| 00:15:04.9 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:15:05.3 |
So maybe you’re not, you’re not relevant now, but maybe you will be relevant at some stage. It’s sort of, um, although you’re dead, you’re still some sort of factor in that, some sort of, uh, [unclear – 0:15:18.6]. |
160 |
| 00:15:20.3 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:15:22.0 |
Some sort of, uh… |
160 |
| 00:15:22.4 |
So it matters to you if you’ve left… |
IJS |
| 00:15:27.6 |
If you don’t, even if you don’t gain something in your life, it’s still adding towards, uh, society, society in general and social constructs and how the world’s created. So you’re still happy with that. If they, if they take something from your work after you’re dead, I wouldn’t – I think maybe you’d still… [big breath] we’re talking meta-physical, but you still sort of feel, some sort of, you would still get the impression that something happened. Or some sort of… |
160 |
| 00:15:59.5 |
…mmm-hm… |
IJS |
| 00:15:59.5 |
…you’re involved, you’re going to be a better sort of metaphysics, um, after life type of… yeah, whatever. I think you would still have a sort of impression even, even before you die, you might have some sort of impression that something might happen that would make you relevant at some stage. There’s just, there’s too many people now going for too many things and everybody’s there, everybody’s final. So, at some stage, somebody’s going to find something you’ve done, take, um, take something from it, good or bad, um, preferably good. Um, no matter how trivial or how strong or important it was. Uh, but the paths – it could be anything. It’s everywhere, it could, as I say, a great number of things could [unclear – 0:16:53.3]. So you’ve got a lot of things [unclear – 0:16:56.5]. |
160 |
| 00:16:57.9 |
And you talk there relevance as being important. |
IJS |
| 00:17:02.0 |
Um, well that’s what I’m saying. I don’t, I don’t know. Uh, once upon a time maybe back here, on the first shape drawn… |
160 |
| 00:17:11.2 |
…yeah… |
IJS |
| 00:17:11.2 |
…when I was a younger designer, I thought it’d be great, you know? Being a famous designer. [unclear] great life. people [unclear – 0:17:19.1] people do still want to have people who, um…that’s why I prefer design over illustration because there’s more to it. There’s more, um, I feel there’s more substance to it, there’s more of a, um, sense of, uh, you’re outstanding in your own field. You’re something in your own field, um, illustration is too subjective. It’s too, too much of, uh, an opinion thing. Whereas graphic design is, it’s, it’s, it’s culturally significant [unclear – 0:17:51.0] become more culturally significant. Um, and so, you know, whether you try and make a difference or whether you don’t make, it doesn’t matter. I don’t know where I’m going, to be honest with you, 15 [unclear – 0:18:05.3] a day because I’m a well-known designer. I think, uh, no matter what the contribution is, somebody’s going to find your contribution. Somebody’s going to consider it, somebody’s going to take something from it at some stage. It would be nice if it happened before you died. It would be nice if it was a positive contribution you’d made. But it is going to be a contribution. |
160 |
| 00:18:27.1 |
Yeah. So that’s your [unclear], okay. Gone into [unclear – 0:18:33.2] started out in, uh, general, um, uh, talking about butterfly effect, too many variables. You’ve kind of gone to your professional life a bit, haven’t you? Um… |
IJS |
| 00:18:47.7 |
So social life do you mean or just general [unclear – 0:18:50.2]. |
160 |
| 00:18:49.9 |
Your professional life, in here, it’s somewhere… |
IJS |
| 00:18:54.7 |
…yeah… |
160 |
| 00:18:54.7 |
…between there and there and this significance and relevance is your professional life. When you think of that, what, um, what do you think of? Is there, is there some shape to or image to your professional life? Let’s assume that is the path [unclear – 0:19:17.2]. |
IJS |
| 00:19:17.2 |
Well I knew there was going to be paths across there. |
160 |
| 00:19:18.7 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:19:18.7 |
[Unclear- 0:19:19.5] these would be different professional routes… |
160 |
| 00:19:21.9 |
…yeah… |
IJS |
| 00:19:21.9 |
…based on the micro-variables in your life that assume whatever direction. Um, if I had to say what, what does it look like. what does it… as one image maybe. Um it would be this idea, terms of reference, it’s just too open… variables… it’s just a black hole. |
160 |
| 00:19:41.5 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:19:41.5 |
Um (rustling of sheet) [unclear – 0:19:44.5] black hole in science fiction [unclear – 0:19:47.1]. |
160 |
| 00:19:49.6 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:19:49.6 |
You know [unclear – 0:19:49.8]. It’s just open, it’s too open and, um, [unclear -0:19:56.1] what you have, um, [unclear – 0:20:01.6] May be at the same time though, uh, I was still [unclear – 0:20:09.1] should try to [unclear – 0:20:12.3]. |
160 |
| 00:20:14.7 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:20:14.7 |
So black hole represents how you’re going to do this, um, [unclear – 0:20:22.2] within a box (rustling of sheet) [unclear – 0:20:30.0] you start maybe some stage learning [unclear – 0:20:34.0] what it is you want. Even though you’ve no need to want anything anymore. If you do want more, that’s okay but there’s no push for you to do work with, you know…there is no, there is no [unclear – 0:20:51.8] done. You don’t need to keep pushing yourself [unclear – 0:20:56.8] 50, I’d say. It’s more just a case of, uh, you then have to…you stop feeling the need to prove yourself to other people, you stop feeling the need to prove yourself in general, um. |
160 |
| 00:21:14.4 |
So that, which you talked about this after, after death. |
IJS |
| 00:21:17.0 |
Yeah. This [unclear – 0:21:18.4]. |
160 |
| 00:21:18.6 |
[Unclear – 0:21:19.3]. |
IJS |
| 00:21:19.3 |
This represents in life. The idea that there’s too many variables. Somewhere in that black hole, um, what the black hole is within our past that you have to then [unclear – 0:21:29.2] your, your variables are in here. And this life – know how to be content. It’s…you don’t need to keep on and keep on and keep on pushing and chopping and changing [unclear – 0:21:44.4] over. Jumping into a different area because you think that it’s going to be better for you [unclear – 0:21:49.3]. Even then that’s, that’s generally, that’s not just… that’s even social, um, relationships, uh, where you live, um, how you live [unclear – 0:22:01.8]. |
160 |
| 00:22:03.1 |
That recognition of… |
IJS |
| 00:22:05.7 |
What you have [unclear – 0:22:06.5] what you want is [unclear – 0:22:08.7]. You could keep on, and keep on, but you have to recognise when you’ve got enough. |
160 |
| 00:22:16.5 |
Okay. So we’ve got the [unclear – 0:22:21.3] of your life from graphic education. During that year – the industry, um, let’s have a think about this industry. What industry are you in? Where is it on the sheet? What shape has it got? What boundaries has it got? Where does it belong here? Where does this industry and the name of this industry. |
IJS |
| 00:22:56.6 |
(Rustling of sheet) [unclear – 0:22:59.6]. |
160 |
| 00:22:59.6 |
Hey? |
IJS |
| 00:23:01.3 |
Can I use the space for one? |
160 |
| 00:23:02.1 |
Course you can. |
IJS |
| 00:23:02.9 |
So, um, [unclear – 0:23:05.6]. Yeah, um, we’re on a new timeline. Um, uh, kind of like (rustling of sheet) so these different lines represent different career paths. Um, I think graphic designs is very, uh, is very transferable. The skills that you learn are very transferable through different, different areas. This, again, this sort of sums up what I meant with the, um (rustling of sheet) idea that there’s too many variables. It’s not [unclear – 0:24:04.8] it’s good to have variables. Um, it’s good that you can be quite powerful, um, so maybe that somebody’s graphic design – it wouldn’t be mine – maybe one will be, uh, publish books, um, maybe one of them’s printing. |
160 |
| 00:24:21.7 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:24:22.3 |
Um, you know, uh maybe one of them’s paint signs in Vietnam, kind of thing. Um, maybe, as you know, the transferable skills, uh. Personally, myself, I’d love to have a few friends in sort of fashion, [unclear – 0:24:41.1] fashion [unclear – 0:24:41.8] uh, art college. There’s a lot of graphic design students actually like [unclear- 0:24:48.9] they’re transferring their graphic design skills into fashion which is, you know, um, one designer is an area [unclear – 0:24:57.4] um, magazine she’s in – typefaces – [unclear – 0:25:02.1] sometimes she wishes her design, uh…she worked in an industry that was much more, um, uh…it was, it was relevant to, uh, need, you know? Graphic design [unclear – 0:25:16.0] people do need…you do need [unclear – 0:25:18.4] in terms of physical need, you know, uh, transferable. I think that’s where a lot of graphic designers transfer into this sort of fashion work because they’re printing their messages onto garments which you then wore. Not only are you communicating, um, but you’re also providing garments that work. You have both your messages there and you also have, uh, something tactile that people can actually make use of, in physical, every day life. Um, that’s what I got the idea of [unclear – 0:25:48.4] of, uh, [unclear – 0:25:50.6] within design, printing and fashion house. |
160 |
| 00:25:57.0 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:25:57.3 |
One ends, you just work on the other two. That one ends and you work on these two. They’re all [unclear – 0:26:03.4]. They’re all [unclear – 0:26:04.6]. I think it’s, it’s a bit crazy the idea to contain yourself to one, sort of, uh, if you’re a graphic designer, that’s it. Uh, [unclear – 0:26:13.6] um, illustrations a bit subjective. It’s got a lot of opinion to it but, you know, if you…if it’s [unclear – 0:26:20.3] you want to draw a picture, you just want to scribble [unclear – 0:26:23.8] sketchbook. |
160 |
| 00:26:25.0 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:26:26.0 |
Just do it. |
160 |
| 00:26:26.4 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:26:26.4 |
If that’s what you feel like doing, you should just do it. and, uh, if you like, if you think it’s good, put it out there. Because at some stage [unclear – 0:26:34.4] uh, because [unclear – 0:26:36.7] um [unclear – 0:26:39.6] some stage. So I’d say it’s either new, new way of thinking or it’s bigger than the very simple old way of doing things that was not [unclear – 0:26:53.1] So yeah. |
160 |
| 00:26:55.6 |
So, um, these don’t quite represent industries then, do they? They represent time in industries [unclear] for you. |
IJS |
| 00:27:08.5 |
Yeah. I think, definitely. I think, um, you know, industries are changing, you know. Some people [unclear – 0:27:15.3] that half day, uh [unclear – 0:27:19.3] back whenever they were trained, it was all [unclear – 0:27:25.0]. Now it’s all electrical and the industry is changing in such a way they feel that they’ve been [unclear – 0:27:30.2] do the work that they were originally to do. So, you know, industries change and industries bend and you have to, uh, you either swap over or you find a fresh way of doing stuff within that industry. For example, when that came along, everybody thought that, uh, printed material would cease to exist but it hasn’t. It exists alongside. Maybe at some stage it will cease to exist but, for now, it’s an overlap and… |
160 |
| 00:27:55.5 |
You’re suggesting something different. Are you suggesting being in three different industries at the same time? |
IJS |
| 00:28:01.1 |
Yeah, yeah. So, as I say, the skills are transferable. If, if you feel your skills, uh, are good enough for another area as well or if you feel that, uh, you can produce something that that other industry requires, you should, I think you should do it. |
160 |
| 00:28:16.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:28:17.0 |
You should go. Even, even if you’re working on, say, you’re working for an architect at some stage, doing, um, wavelength or architectural graphics or something like that. It’s still transferable to fashion because there’s still this sort of environment, you know? These days, you find people here are just as architectural as the buildings around them and stuff that they were [unclear – 0:28:36.7] it’s just as transferable as the idea, uh, graphic design can influence [unclear – 0:28:42.6] fashion. And it can influence architecture and it stands [unclear – 0:28:46.2]. Um, I don’t think it’s fair to say that’s only [unclear – 0:28:50.4] it’s only graphic design. It’s fair to say that fashion influences, uh, you know, uh, marketing. Fashion influences graphic design also. Architecture definitely influences graphic design [unclear – 0:29:04.3] you know? Uh, architecture influences city planning. Um, therefore, [unclear – 0:29:11.5] at this stage where graphic design infringes on architecture [unclear – 0:29:14.6] influence city planning. So there’s all these, um, uh, terrestrial, satellite sort of mysteries. Maybe. It’s all interconnected because of the way the world works these days. There’s, there’s, there’s everyone interconnection and, um [unclear – 0:29:30.1] uh, it’s not about them being defined in the future. It’s about them being, uh…I wouldn’t say redefined, it’s just that they’ve discovered that you can make a connection with something so disparate, so potentially far away, but it’s still within your reference. Although maybe a lot of them are abstract [unclear – 0:29:51.2] a lot of them are abstract be a good thing but it’s still being influenced by something that’s gone on, uh two steps away in a different industry. So it’s a big jump between industries [unclear – 0:30:02.4] industries. |
160 |
| 00:30:03.9 |
Yeah. So does that mean you are in industries, are you outside these industries? Or are you somehow both [unclear – 0:30:16.1]? |
IJS |
| 00:30:16.8 |
You’re, you’re inside and you’re… uh, I think, I think, first off, you have to be in the industry but you can go over to other industries. And you can sort of say…well, as I said, um, you kind of go over and say well I can do that in. Or I can do that in a fresh way. I can do that in a way that’s going to keep people. Um, if [unclear – 0:30:33.6] okay, but the point is you’re in something that is [unclear – 0:30:39.1] important. So, yeah, yeah. When your within industry, you’re producing whatever it is, you know [unclear – 0:30:52.0] um [unclear – 0:30:55.9] because, you know, design is definitely a social medium. It’s definitely a social practice. You have to, you have to take into consideration what the client wants, and what the idea of what you’re producing or communicating to. So that, that’s, that’s transferable out there [unclear – 0:31:13.4]. |
160 |
| 00:31:13.8 |
How can you… ’cause in relation to me saying ‘name an industry’, you say design is a social practice. Is that something you…does that replace the name of this industry then? |
IJS |
| 00:31:31.2 |
Um… |
160 |
| 00:31:31.3 |
This, this thought that design is a social practice. |
IJS |
| 00:31:34.4 |
Yeah. I think, I think to an extent. Um, I think it’ll still called, uh, graphic design because, uh… well may be eventually it will get to the stage where, uh, as I say, it’s not about them saying… It’s about discovery of the different…you know, it’s about discovering the new potential. Um, so, in a sense it’ll still be called graphic design. Um, these days, they have to be all the same, you know? That’s, that’s social design or that’s, um, sustainable design. But it’s, it’s still within a graphic ind…. so the industry is still graphic design. You have social, uh, more social design within the graphic design industry. You have more, uh, sustainability within. You might have both but it’s always [unclear – 0:32:19.8] um, yeah I think [unclear – 0:32:22.8] at some stage, yeah, I think it probably will. Um, it will be seen that graphic design isn’t just graphic design but, uh, the industry, they’d have to define it, you know, there’s a need to define what is, what is it that you are. |
160 |
| 00:32:37.7 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:32:38.3 |
Well they define it as a graphic designer and that’s the way things are these days because, you know, um, I think it was [unclear – 0:32:45.6] who used to say that, uh, they term themselves graphic engineers or something like that. They didn’t call themselves graphic designers, they called themselves engineers because they were building. I think what that [unclear – 0:32:57.0] I think that’s what they were saying was that, um, they construct from scratch type of thing. |
160 |
| 00:33:03.2 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:33:03.6 |
So, you know, but you couldn’t, you couldn’t have…call yourself just on the street, a freelance designer or ‘I’m a graphic engineer’ because, at this stage, well, number one, [unclear – 0:33:14.9] it makes sense. Maybe you could appropriate that. And it make sense to appropriate that, uh, uh, you just wouldn’t find the work. You know, all the studios are still very client-focussed. To say that: it’s like ‘Oh what is that?’ You have to try and explain it and all. You don’t, you don’t have 30 minutes to sit and tell people, ‘Well graphic engineer is not just a graphic designer but it’s somebody who builds conceptually from scratch’ instead of just in fashion, or something.’ Just giving that example.. That’s, you know, I think the industry, the fact that the industry is choosing the way that people [unclear – 0:33:52.8]. Does that make sense? |
160 |
| 00:33:54.0 |
Mmm-hm, yeah. So that…so you would have a graphic engineering mindset without [unclear – 0:34:02.6]. |
IJS |
| 00:34:02.8 |
[Unclear – 0:34:02.6] I wouldn’t really say that, um, graphic design industry doesn’t like individualism. But the way that the world is going at the minute, if everybody was an individualist, you wouldn’t have jobs. You wouldn’t have people, you know, you’d have a single job for every, every single person in the world would have a different job or different job title, you know? [unclear] So I think what the industry tries to do is give it a general graphic term. People can be, as I say, as you said, uh, they can be graphic engineers within the graphic design profession. And they can expand, like I said, with graphic design. But, at the end of the day, you’re still defined by the industry, primarily. And, uh, a lot of, a lot of, uh, history, history books would say, ‘Such and such as designer really was transient. They moved between these different industries,’ and all the rest of it. But we still don’t say, it’s not really…it’s…we would call it [unclear – 0:35:07.8] we’re still [unclear – 0:35:11.4] graphic designers. [Unclear – 0:35:12.6] saying this was just [unclear – 0:35:15.1]. It felt like, it felt like we were bringing something new [unclear – 0:35:20.3]. |
160 |
| 00:35:22.9 |
Mmm-hm. So is that [unclear – 0:35:24.8]um, because those are narratives [unclear – 0:35:27.7] afterwards. So does it…is that what you’re really suggesting – that thing about after death? |
IJS |
| 00:35:32.8 |
Yeah. Even if someone finds your work and finds it [unclear – 0:35:36.1], finds it new, it appeals [unclear – 0:35:39.8] different, new way of thinking about things. That’s, that’s fine. It happens after death, the fact that it’s happened at all. |
160 |
| 00:35:50.4 |
Good. I want us to think about some transitions. |
IJS |
| 00:35:55.0 |
Yeah, sure. |
160 |
| 00:35:56.2 |
So is, um, this looked like – that division one thing. It looked like a transition into… |
IJS |
| 00:36:02.9 |
Into graphic design. |
160 |
| 00:36:04.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:36:04.2 |
Yeah. |
160 |
| 00:36:04.9 |
What, what, what was that like, that transition? [Unclear – 0:36:07.9]. |
IJS |
| 00:36:07.8 |
Well I did, I did foundation course before this so, um, if I had to, if I had to describe it, it was just this great heap of [unclear – 0:36:14.8]. So it was a lot of, um, people in there. These people, there’s a lot of people in there. I haven’t quite…there’s a lot of them I just haven’t spoke to since. |
160 |
| 00:36:31.6 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:36:32.0 |
It was at a time when everyone, um, everybody was happy at the university or at art college. It’s a university but it’s an art college. |
160 |
| 00:36:40.1 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:36:40.4 |
Within university. Which I hate, but… |
160 |
| 00:36:44.0 |
Why? Why do you hate it? |
IJS |
| 00:36:48.2 |
I feel like they don’t understand the budgetary, the funding concerns, financial, uh, requirements of an art college. They fit the place, the university template on us. They just can’t understand, for example, like this – straight off the top of my head – they have a double-sided printer in art college which is just if you’re sticking stuff in a sketchbook, what the hell you need double sided printing for [unclear – 0:37:14.3] “Why did we do it? We did it because, uh, it seems we’re distinguished. Everybody else in every other course has duplex print, double-sided printer. It doesn’t… it’s just disregard for the needs of that particular campus. |
160 |
| 00:37:30.6 |
Mmm-hm, yeah. So that, yeah… |
IJS |
| 00:37:32.7 |
This was just trying to do everything. Foundation courses, um… |
160 |
| 00:37:37.5 |
So it’s not a muddle? |
IJS |
| 00:37:38.5 |
It’s not a muddle, no. It’s a very, it’s a very, uh, incremental path. It’s similar to this year in many different directions but it’s contained within, again, one year and there’s a lot of people. And, uh, there maybe is a wee bit of confusion, not confusion but, uh, uncertainty of what you want to do from students. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, um, wouldn’t say it’s a kettle, but certainly, but it’s, uh, it’s [unclear – 0:38:01.1] where you’re having to be, you know, uh, movement through this myriad of this, all this different… |
160 |
| 00:38:08.5 |
…yeah… |
IJS |
| 00:38:10.4 |
…materials, areas and industries. |
160 |
| 00:38:13.0 |
So that exciting transition, what the…when would be that transition? So you’ve got, uh, that plateau. You are coming to here which is the beginning of this branch of too many variables. What does that transition look like? |
IJS |
| 00:38:34.0 |
[Unclear – 0:38:34.6] that’s a much more, um (rustling of sheet)…that’s (rustling of sheet) [unclear – 0:38:43.3] um [unclear – 0:38:48.8] with this [unclear – 0:38:50.8]. This is just very heavy-level door. Almost like uh Fort Knox or something. |
160 |
| 00:38:58.6 |
This is a top plan [unclear – 0:39:00.5]? |
IJS |
| 00:39:00.2 |
Trying to open doors. Trying to push your way through after you finish, um, you know, uh, maybe on of them is [unclear – 0:39:08.5]. The other one is nostalgia. The other one is, um, you know, uh, family life and your closeness with your peers. What that means for somebody that maybe doesn’t have the, um, career, the career, um, where you can inspire, you know? You have the potential, career potential, um, somewhere that’s politically very, uh, stagnant, very conservative and manifesto – in a way… fundamentalist… different things. It’s just now we’re getting through, now we’re getting…it’s maybe not breaking straight through doors. It maybe sometimes you, um, you [unclear – 0:39:49.4] creep around the perimeter. |
160 |
| 00:39:50.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:39:52.2 |
Yeah, and, uh, there’s no string or wall attached to you. You can’t go back. You have to just go forward. |
160 |
| 00:39:58.4 |
Yeah. So that is [unclear – 0:40:01.3]. It’s not, uh… |
IJS |
| 00:40:02.8 |
…yeah, it is… |
160 |
| 00:40:02.8 |
…conforming to or… |
IJS |
| 00:40:03.8 |
Yeah. You’re, you’re floating with your, your, your own [unclear – 0:40:07.6] but it’s…yeah. You’re, you’re breaking it through, you’re breaking through using different…they’re just very solid objects that aren’t…but they’re social, they’re social objects and not [unclear – 0:40:22.9] nostalgic relationships. |
160 |
| 00:40:28.1 |
Explain nostalgia then as well. |
IJS |
| 00:40:29.5 |
Yeah. Nostalgia, um… personally I think I’m very, um, uh, easiest way to say it like [unclear – 0:40:38.8] nostalgia. Um, I think, I think a lot of people, I wouldn’t say [unclear – 0:40:43.8] as such but I think, um, certain people tend to hold onto key things, key things… key moments in life that [unclear – 0:40:51.9]. They’re going to go somewhere inside them no matter, for example, if you’ve lived in a city for 23 years like myself, you could walk down any street [unclear – 0:41:01.6] and you will have that memory hopefully. I wouldn’t say you’d want to abandon it, even if it was a bad memory forever [unclear – 0:41:09.3] that would be right the hot spot and you could [unclear – 0:41:12.2]. As I said, hopefully [unclear – 0:41:14.4] got to that spot [unclear – 0:41:15.8] stand on that spot. You might not remember exactly what age you were, what time, but you remember that something happened on that spot. You remember what it was that happened but you don’t remember exactly the time and date and what age you were. Even like… when you might not remember the people around you. The names of them, but you remember this situation and you remember [unclear – 0:41:36.2]. That’s where [unclear – 0:41:38.1] that’s where, um, that’s where I was assaulted by a [unclear – 0:41:43.1]. That’s where, um, you know, that’s where perhaps [unclear – 0:41:48.9]. That’s where different things like that. |
160 |
| 00:41:51.6 |
Mmm-hm, mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:41:52.8 |
Um, so yeah. [Unclear – 0:41:55.7] if you move to a different site. You can make [unclear – 0:41:59.6] new memories, but you might get a lot of time before you go back and do situations where you can go to those places and experience that experience – remember that. |
160 |
| 00:42:07.3 |
Mmm-hm. |
IJS |
| 00:42:07.9 |
Yeah. |
160 |
| 00:42:08.5 |
Great. So this is, um, this…the journey and, the, um, life, really, that it contains now. So you are on there hopefully heading to the plateau between there. I wonder if these final moments of the last year that you had only just started out [unclear – 0:42:39.2]. |
IJS |
| 00:42:39.8 |
Yeah. |
160 |
| 00:42:39.9 |
Um, in the final moments of your degree, what’s the best use of your time, this year? |
IJS |
| 00:42:47.2 |
What. What was, in the final months now, what, what was the best use of my time throughout the year? |
160 |
| 00:42:53.2 |
No. In this year coming up, what is the best use of your time now? |
IJS |
| 00:42:59.6 |
Uh. In terms of the course? Um, uh, not sure. Uh, I think maybe [unclear – 0:43:12.7] I’m not sure, uh [unclear – 0:43:20.4]. It’s hard, it’s hard to foresee. [recorder failure at this point] |
160 |
