| Start Time |
Transcript |
Speaker |
| 00:00:00.0 |
What shape, size…what shape, image or symbol would you use to represent your graphic education? Where would it go on this sheet and what size would it be? |
IJS |
| 00:00:16.4 |
[rustling of sheet] I think [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:00:51.1 |
Uh-huh. Okay. Is that most important? |
IJS |
| 00:00:56.7 |
Yeah, very important. Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:00:59.1 |
So, you’ve drawn there a pencil. And it was really important to have it [unclear] as well, so… |
IJS |
| 00:01:07.6 |
Well also I thought it might be really important. But now I’m thinking maybe it’s more important not to have it… |
168 |
| 00:01:13.2 |
Go on. |
IJS |
| 00:01:14.0 |
‘Cause then you’re forced to [unclear]. You might have to actually, like… [unclear] |
168 |
| 00:01:20.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:01:21.4 |
But then it looks like a more accurate pencil now [unclear] so I [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:01:26.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:01:26.7 |
[laughing] |
168 |
| 00:01:28.6 |
Alright. If that’s, um, graphic education, I want you to think now about, and just say to you, so what’s that made up of? What are the main divisions of this graphic education? It could be time, conceptually, project-based… If for you, I say, ‘What are the main divisions of that education?’ what are they? |
IJS |
| 00:01:52.9 |
Um, what do you mean by ‘division’? |
168 |
| 00:01:54.1 |
It could be conceptually, it could be by years, it could be, um, uh, by place or time or when I say, ‘What are the parts of your graphic design education,’ um, the dominant parts for you of it, what were they? |
IJS |
| 00:02:16.8 |
Mm. I’m thinking back to when I started my design education. |
168 |
| 00:02:23.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:02:24.1 |
And it all started on a computer. Which is funny because [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:02:28.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:02:29.4 |
And, um, I was thinking, like, maybe a mountain, like in peaks. |
168 |
| 00:02:38.8 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:02:39.3 |
It’s kind of like [rustling of sheet] you’re climbing a mountain and every time you get a bit better at something, there’s always potential to fall back a little. |
168 |
| 00:02:52.7 |
Right. Okay. So is this mountain orientated towards me? |
IJS |
| 00:02:59.7 |
[laughing] No, it’s like this! |
168 |
| 00:03:02.8 |
[laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:03:02.9 |
I just like that it carries on from the pencil. |
168 |
| 00:03:05.6 |
Yeah. Right. That’s the peak of it. |
IJS |
| 00:03:09.9 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:03:10.6 |
Yeah. Okay. So that suggests this is the beginning of education – you had the biggest peak to climb there. Is that right? |
IJS |
| 00:03:22.4 |
Mm. Well I was going to think about it more from this perspective… because…like because it all started in, um, in, like, secondary school… |
168 |
| 00:03:31.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:03:31.7 |
…when all I used to do was sit around and draw stuff with a pencil… |
168 |
| 00:03:36.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:03:37.0 |
…and then my art teacher said, ‘You’ll never get anywhere as an artist if you don’t know how to paint.’ |
168 |
| 00:03:42.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:03:42.8 |
And I said, ‘I don’t want to paint – I just want to draw cartoons’. So I kept on drawing with a pencil. And then somewhere along the way, at some point, it was like, you have to [unclear]. And I was like, trying [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:04:03.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:04:04.4 |
And then I wasn’t allowed to do BTEC at secondary school, even though I did want to do it. |
168 |
| 00:04:12.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:04:13.4 |
It was like, I had to stop doing art for a year. Instead I did photography. |
168 |
| 00:04:16.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:04:17.1 |
Which was good. ‘Cause I got good marks in it. And it was in that year that I found out what graphic design was. |
168 |
| 00:04:23.4 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:04:23.7 |
And, uh, and my photography teacher said, ‘Maybe you should do that.’ And that was, like, the final piece, I guess, for me, in my head. |
168 |
| 00:04:33.2 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:04:33.7 |
And now I’m, I’m standing at the top of the mountain. |
168 |
| 00:04:36.7 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:04:37.2 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:04:38.1 |
Now this is [unclear]. So now you are… do you want to plant yourself there? |
IJS |
| 00:04:48.0 |
Yeah. [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:04:51.2 |
What’s interesting about, uh, what you said there is that, uh – that’s a glorious picture – is that that peak was enforced by somebody. |
IJS |
| 00:05:08.9 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:05:09.5 |
And it had been uncomfortable but then there was a rise after it. |
IJS |
| 00:05:13.7 |
Yeah, it was like, uh, in school I was trying to be forced into it. |
168 |
| 00:05:19.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:05:19.7 |
And then [clearing throat] I got a mentor in my last year, he used to come to my house because he was a friend of a friend. Um. He also really good at drawing. |
168 |
| 00:05:30.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:05:30.7 |
And there was…there was certain… I could only draw certain styles and in a certain way and I really felt very doubtful and he said, ‘Well I can teach you different things,’ and he, like, got me started with paints and that. |
168 |
| 00:05:42.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:05:43.4 |
So it was an informal… |
168 |
| 00:05:44.5 |
Yeah. It sounds as though that second one was, um, was different circumstances but again [unclear] going to be manoeuvred in some way you’d not intended. |
IJS |
| 00:05:58.9 |
Yeah. Definitely. |
168 |
| 00:06:01.8 |
Yeah. So my next question was challenges. |
IJS |
| 00:06:04.5 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:06:05.7 |
Is that the main challenges you’ve had or…or are there others you could mark on there? |
IJS |
| 00:06:10.8 |
I think [unclear] university was…was more. |
168 |
| 00:06:14.1 |
Okay. How would you represent those challenges on here? Where would they go? What would they look like? And what are they? |
IJS |
| 00:06:23.7 |
[rustling of sheet] would be a big black hole. A little pessimistic, but… |
168 |
| 00:06:45.3 |
That’s quite a force – a big black hole? |
IJS |
| 00:06:47.0 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:06:48.4 |
What…what is that? |
IJS |
| 00:06:50.9 |
Um. Well I’ve…I’ve reached the top of my, like, mountain. |
168 |
| 00:06:54.7 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:06:55.3 |
Which is good. But like I said, there’s the constant tension to fall off. |
168 |
| 00:06:59.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:07:00.0 |
So you’ve got to stay on it. |
168 |
| 00:07:01.1 |
Right. So it’s not just that you would slide down the side. There is somehow a big, black… |
IJS |
| 00:07:10.1 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:07:10.9 |
…tunnel down… |
IJS |
| 00:07:12.7 |
Yes. |
168 |
| 00:07:13.9 |
…into a dark pit. |
IJS |
| 00:07:15.0 |
Yeah. Basically it’s like you… I’m up there. I go past the, like, preliminary goals of getting into education or getting to where I want to be some day… |
168 |
| 00:07:27.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:07:28.3 |
…but now I’m in the education, if I don’t make the best of it then it’ll be that big black hole. |
168 |
| 00:07:35.0 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:07:35.7 |
And I’ll regret everything so far. |
168 |
| 00:07:37.8 |
Right. So… And are there any particular challenges then that you could name that took you around that black hole? |
IJS |
| 00:07:50.9 |
Um. Well that’s navigating me around it. |
168 |
| 00:07:55.4 |
Um…challenges that took you towards it, which you’ve obviously escaped from. |
IJS |
| 00:08:05.1 |
You want me to write them? |
168 |
| 00:08:06.1 |
Whatever you want to do, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:08:08.6 |
[rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:08:20.5 |
Expectation? |
IJS |
| 00:08:21.9 |
Yeah. From yourself, maybe. |
168 |
| 00:08:26.5 |
Yourself? |
IJS |
| 00:08:27.9 |
Yeah. Um. The ego… [rustling of sheet] is involved there. And then… something else. [rustling of sheet]. That’s a big one. Time. |
168 |
| 00:08:50.9 |
Time? In what sense? |
IJS |
| 00:08:52.0 |
Um, I used to hang out and like really um [clearing throat], be anxious about leaving a mark of doing…doing something to be remembered by. |
168 |
| 00:09:05.1 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:09:05.8 |
And now, I feel it’s not so much about leaving something to be remembered by, but having something to remember. |
168 |
| 00:09:12.7 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:09:14.4 |
Mm. So it’s like, I’ve now realised that it’s not about trying to live for a…it’s about trying to live the best life you can whilst you’ve still got it. |
168 |
| 00:09:26.5 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:09:27.4 |
‘Cause that still feels scary, though because you’ve only got a few days… |
168 |
| 00:09:32.8 |
Alright. |
IJS |
| 00:09:34.5 |
Well you’ve got loads of days but you know what I mean? [unclear] |
168 |
| 00:09:39.2 |
Yeah. What about then, if I say, these are your challenge around it. Any particular highlights of your graphic education? |
IJS |
| 00:09:52.5 |
Mm. Mm. That’s funny. Uh. Highlights of my graphic education would be a team put together [rustling of sheet] when I design some posters for a clock, which is hilarious. Which we were just talking about. |
168 |
| 00:10:13.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:10:15.3 |
[rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:10:20.7 |
Posters for a clock? |
IJS |
| 00:10:22.8 |
Yeah, I, um. Basically I got asked with a few of my other students to take part in, like, a workshop where we designed a series of posters for [a national] embassy. |
168 |
| 00:10:35.7 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:10:35.8 |
And that was, like, the biggest design that I’ve done so far. |
168 |
| 00:10:39.5 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:10:40.2 |
I was really happy with the outcome. And I got to, uh, I got to… We got taken out and like had our breakfast paid for… champagne all day. It was like a big, kind of, event. It was really, really nice. And I got a medal, which I gave to my mum. So that was really nice. |
168 |
| 00:10:57.2 |
Nice. Okay. Um. Are there ways, then, on there of what it was? Is was, uh…uh, there’s something joyous… |
IJS |
| 00:11:07.7 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:11:08.2 |
…about that experience. |
IJS |
| 00:11:12.4 |
[rustling of sheet] [mumbling] There’s a signpost. |
168 |
| 00:11:47.8 |
Good. |
IJS |
| 00:11:48.7 |
It’s a happy medal. |
168 |
| 00:11:49.9 |
Yeah? Good. Education sorted. Um. That will be [unclear] potentially in perhaps less than a year and there will be something else emerging. Um. Now I’d like us to put aside for the moment professional, and think wider. So thinking about hopes and aspirations maybe there. But personal, spiritual, cultural, creative, family. These kinds of arenas. We’ll come back to professional. It’s not committing to a particular way of life, it’s just about when you think about wider life from here, do you see anything? In which case, how would you visualise that? If you don’t see anything, [laughing] how would you visualise that? |
IJS |
| 00:12:52.9 |
Uh… I’d have, like, I see too much. |
168 |
| 00:12:56.2 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:12:56.7 |
I know that’s a problem because, uh, what… |
168 |
| 00:13:02.7 |
Besides your profession. |
IJS |
| 00:13:03.5 |
Mm, yeah. There’s, like…even outside of profession… |
168 |
| 00:13:07.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:13:08.2 |
…there’s a lot of avenues to try and walk down. |
168 |
| 00:13:11.2 |
Right. Sounds [unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:13:13.5 |
Um. Say the question again, so I’ve got it in my head. |
168 |
| 00:13:22.4 |
So you are here in… looking ahead to wider life. What do you see? How would you visualise what you see? If you do see something, and the second part is if you don’t see anything, how would you visualise that? So it sounds as though the question for you is how could you visualise what you see ahead, outside of your profession? [rustling of sheet] You’ve got plenty to go on this sheet. |
IJS |
| 00:13:57.7 |
[rustling of sheet] [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:14:28.2 |
Right. Is this the profile? |
IJS |
| 00:14:30.3 |
Uh, kind of. It’s like, um, the conscious and the unconscious mind. |
168 |
| 00:14:39.8 |
Okay. Which one’s which in there? |
IJS |
| 00:14:42.7 |
Uh, well I think for me the conscious one would be the, uh… That’s an interesting question, actually. ‘Cause, um, it’s like, you know…you know Carl Jung? |
168 |
| 00:14:58.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:14:58.9 |
He… I watched a great video recently where he talks about the pain of trying to fit into a world where you’re part of a collective unconscious but you’re also an individual with your own subconscious. |
168 |
| 00:15:14.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:15:14.6 |
And that…yeah. I never thought of a good translation… Um. I think this one’s the conscious. [rustling of sheet] And that’s the unconscious. |
168 |
| 00:15:30.0 |
Uh-huh. So, let’s look ahead. What do you see? What’s in your wider life? It sounds as though there’s some conscious things? What are those conscious things? |
IJS |
| 00:15:53.1 |
Um. Aims or expectation. Well, predictions of [unclear]. I used to want to live a long life. But now I just kind of want to live a happy life. [rustling of sheet] [mumbling] I don’t know. [laughing] Um. [mumbling] Um. Hopefully, you know, happiness is in my future. Other than that, I can’t just [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:16:52.2 |
Uh-huh. [unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:16:58.3 |
[sniffing] [rustling of sheet] Could be, like, being able to put my feet up and relax. [rustling of sheet] Uh. And still have the time to be…working on things I like. So time as my work. Food in my belly. A roof over my head. Pretty much set. |
168 |
| 00:17:46.2 |
Okay. So is that a roof over your head? |
IJS |
| 00:17:50.7 |
Well [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:17:54.6 |
But this…this roof, is…do you own this roof? |
IJS |
| 00:17:59.8 |
Mm… |
168 |
| 00:18:00.4 |
Or are you simply under this roof? |
IJS |
| 00:18:04.4 |
Um. I think… Well you see I’d like to say that I’m happy with using it, as long as I’m under it and I’m happy. |
168 |
| 00:18:15.0 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:18:15.5 |
I think I want… I’d like to live under my roof, though. I’d want to feel the satisfaction at that point. |
168 |
| 00:18:21.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:18:22.7 |
I’ve accomplished something… |
168 |
| 00:18:24.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:18:24.4 |
…and I get the reward for that. |
168 |
| 00:18:26.3 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:18:26.9 |
All my fear, all my needs are… is that my own house, which wouldn’t be falling apart, [unclear] heated and warm… |
168 |
| 00:18:33.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:18:34.4 |
…I don’t mind. |
168 |
| 00:18:35.1 |
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Wider life. Somewhere in this is some element of professional life. I’m wondering what that professional life looks like to you from here and where does it go on the sheet? |
IJS |
| 00:19:01.2 |
Professional life. Mm. I always want to keep working my hands, keep trying to draw something. |
168 |
| 00:19:17.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:19:18.0 |
[unclear]. [rustling of sheet] Um. I think… [rustling of sheet] [sound of mobile phone] [unclear]. Good work. Developing a style, being recognised for my work. “It’s so good!”. |
168 |
| 00:19:58.1 |
Is that applause? |
IJS |
| 00:19:58.9 |
Yes. I think it’s 100% the most important thing. I think it’s important to feel appreciated… [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:20:16.8 |
So if you get applause, will you [unclear] good work? |
IJS |
| 00:20:25.9 |
Um… [clearing throat] I think it’s part of it. |
168 |
| 00:20:30.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:20:31.6 |
Especially being a graphic designer. Because more often than not you’re working for other people. |
168 |
| 00:20:37.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:20:38.4 |
So it’s important that people enjoy using all the [unclear] artwork that you made. |
168 |
| 00:20:46.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:20:47.2 |
Even if…even if you go completely subversive and throw the client out the window, you should still make it nice to look at and enjoy. |
168 |
| 00:20:58.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:20:58.4 |
Kinda… |
168 |
| 00:20:59.5 |
Alright. |
IJS |
| 00:21:00.1 |
It’s…it’s interesting. ‘Cause… we were talking the other day about how fine artists don’t…don’t really have to pull their… subject… subjectivity back at all. Whereas we kind of have to make it…we have to reconceptualise the things that we’re interested in… don’t make them subjective. |
168 |
| 00:21:23.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:21:23.8 |
And help people understand it. So I guess that ties into it. |
168 |
| 00:21:28.5 |
Uh-huh. Okay. Um. |
IJS |
| 00:21:32.6 |
But I’m [unclear], so that’s kind of weird. |
168 |
| 00:21:36.1 |
Okay, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:21:37.2 |
[laughing] |
168 |
| 00:21:38.4 |
But also [unclear] adjacent with the pencil, so the professional adjacent to education. Um. You touched on this, but not by name, and it is, we’ve got three domains now, which is graphic education, wider life ahead, your professional life, but there’s an entity lurking in here, another domain we talk about so much, particularly in graphic design, and it’s ‘the industry’. |
IJS |
| 00:22:15.6 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:22:16.3 |
‘The industry’ is somewhere. Sometimes the industry [unclear] school. |
IJS |
| 00:22:23.7 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:22:23.8 |
And then these…um, and what I’d like to know is the character of this industry. So where in relation to other stuff on here is the industry? Are you, in your profession, going to be inside it, outside it or somehow both? Uh, is it fixed or changing, in flux? What are the boundaries and edges, visually, to this industry? And what’s the name of this industry? So this is about the character of this industry and where does it go here. |
IJS |
| 00:23:11.9 |
[rustling of sheet] Um… [clearing throat] So the industry is… [rustling of sheet] here. A UFO. |
168 |
| 00:23:26.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:23:27.8 |
[mumbling] [rustling of sheet] It’s like this thing that nobody knows that much about or you can’t really predict. |
168 |
| 00:23:44.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:23:46.0 |
Well no, no you can’t. It’s something that’s kind of out of control of anybody that isn’t in the industry… |
168 |
| 00:23:53.8 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:23:54.7 |
…and they can suck you up and you can become part of the industry. |
168 |
| 00:23:57.3 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:23:58.7 |
But only if you’re, like, an interesting specimen and they want to, like, probe you. |
168 |
| 00:24:06.0 |
Mm. That’s [unclear] it’s kind of mythic quality as well [unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:24:16.7 |
Yeah. Just people to clone in their own image, really. |
168 |
| 00:24:22.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:24:22.6 |
But that doesn’t mean anything. |
168 |
| 00:24:23.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:24:25.1 |
[laughing] |
168 |
| 00:24:25.8 |
But you said ‘being probed’ as well. |
IJS |
| 00:24:27.8 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:24:28.4 |
Which is taking part of you? |
IJS |
| 00:24:31.5 |
Yeah. I reckon it’s like, um…although I was saying I don’t really care about developing [unclear], but some good work… |
168 |
| 00:24:38.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:24:39.8 |
…and I think that’s because from making good work you develop this like… |
168 |
| 00:24:43.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:24:43.7 |
…you go through all of this personal development inside your head, just to get to this kind of idyllic place in your work. |
168 |
| 00:24:54.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:24:54.9 |
And it’s like a culmination of everything you’ve learnt and everything you enjoy and you’re interested in. |
168 |
| 00:24:59.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:24:59.8 |
And then industry is this crazy UFO has the potential to come down [rustling of sheet] and, like, take you up with it. And at some point it might decide that it’s done with you and it’s bored… and it drops you back down like cows. |
168 |
| 00:25:24.6 |
Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh. It’s also, I sense, I hear from you, that it’s miles away. |
IJS |
| 00:25:34.7 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:25:36.0 |
From profession. |
IJS |
| 00:25:36.7 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:25:37.2 |
In fact, from everything. |
IJS |
| 00:25:38.1 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:25:38.6 |
There’s quite a gulf of nothingness, compared to what that is, but there’s also, um, UFOs in sci-fi now are very dangerous kind of unknowns. |
IJS |
| 00:25:56.6 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:25:57.2 |
It’s not sort of… |
IJS |
| 00:25:59.7 |
Scientific, um, aspect, kind of… |
168 |
| 00:26:02.9 |
Uh-huh. There’s almost this threat that they’re coming down. |
IJS |
| 00:26:06.7 |
See, this is the thing. It’s like we… Yeah, if…if UFOs came down now, you’d like to think, if they have the technology for travel, if that’s civilised [unclear] come all the way over here, they wouldn’t do it for no reason. So that probably, if like… Well, fortunately [unclear] they came to the conclusion that if they got to that point in their technology, they would evolve past the need for violence and they probably would be, like, a kind of really highly evolved race. Um. |
168 |
| 00:26:42.7 |
So is that this industry? |
IJS |
| 00:26:43.9 |
[clearing throat] That has…that’s…that’s the hub, but then there’s also the kind of…uh, were pretty bad at looking after our planet. If someone was looking down and this was a test or something, don’t think we’re doing a very good job. |
168 |
| 00:26:58.8 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:27:00.3 |
So it probably…it probably would be a violent UFO. |
168 |
| 00:27:04.7 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:27:06.9 |
That’s the mystery. You don’t know where the industry’s going to go [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:27:11.2 |
Yeah. What is the name of your UFO? What is the name of this industry? |
IJS |
| 00:27:21.7 |
Mm. [pause] Um. I would say [unclear] but shall I just give it a name? |
168 |
| 00:27:32.1 |
Yeah. Give it a name. |
IJS |
| 00:27:35.2 |
[sighing] Okay. [rustling of sheet]. The Watchers. |
168 |
| 00:28:00.5 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:28:03.7 |
Okay, there’s… Basically they’re just you and me and everybody else. There’s nothing different. |
168 |
| 00:28:10.9 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:28:11.3 |
Even though they’re in a UFO. |
168 |
| 00:28:13.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:28:14.0 |
They’re just watching you, looking at your work like a [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:28:17.8 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:28:18.4 |
But the fact that they’re in a UFO means that they can do different things to what the public audience can do. |
168 |
| 00:28:24.4 |
And also that suggests to me that, um, they’ve got, uh, that these being that pull you in, in their time… |
IJS |
| 00:28:33.5 |
Uh-huh. |
168 |
| 00:28:34.3 |
…if they decide, and your ability to go into this industry is entirely at their say-so? |
IJS |
| 00:28:47.2 |
Yeah, ’cause [unclear], which is why I have to keep working on [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:28:54.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:28:54.7 |
You buy your own pencils, like, 500 [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:29:03.4 |
Uh-huh. So is that something as… This is… You added this on as a profession. |
IJS |
| 00:29:09.6 |
Uh-huh. |
168 |
| 00:29:09.9 |
Um, but it sounds almost there as though, uh, what’s most important is production, by pencil, of work. Um. Pencil being the effort for… |
IJS |
| 00:29:26.0 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:29:27.4 |
But production of work and payment for it secondary? |
IJS |
| 00:29:33.6 |
Oh, absolutely, yeah. |
168 |
| 00:29:35.0 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:29:35.7 |
Yeah. My mum [unclear]. I always said this. If I had to, I would sleep on a day mattress in an alleyway… as long as I could keep drawing pretty pictures… |
168 |
| 00:29:46.0 |
Uh-huh. What was her reaction to that? |
IJS |
| 00:29:50.7 |
Uh, ‘You’re so naive. Wait until you get out into the world. It’s one of those things. Blah, blah, blah. Money’s important. You need independence.’ Oh that’s it. She always says, ‘Are you still going to say that when you’ve got no food in your stomach and no food on the table or in the fridge?’ |
168 |
| 00:30:10.3 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:30:12.5 |
Which is like, ‘Oh yeah.’ And then it’s the whole [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:30:19.3 |
Uh-huh. Okay. [unclear] on…on here is that there is this, uh, gulf, gap, uh, space… [laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:30:33.4 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:30:34.0 |
…uh, between everything else which is related to the watchers. |
IJS |
| 00:30:40.5 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:30:41.4 |
Uh. What is this gap? |
IJS |
| 00:30:45.4 |
Um. Is the gap money? [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:30:57.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:31:03.3 |
You know, even after they probe you about [unclear] money, to try and [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:31:07.3 |
Okay. So are you suggesting the money’s there, where the watchers are? |
IJS |
| 00:31:13.0 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:31:13.6 |
You’re not underneath that… You’re not in the beam at the moment. |
IJS |
| 00:31:19.3 |
No. |
168 |
| 00:31:20.3 |
But in order to get to some of what they’ve got, which is this money. |
IJS |
| 00:31:23.9 |
Uh-huh. |
168 |
| 00:31:24.8 |
You may have to place yourself under this beam? |
IJS |
| 00:31:26.8 |
Yeah. Definitely. That’s…that’s hit the nail on the head. |
168 |
| 00:31:31.0 |
Right. Okay. Um. But at risk of probing more [unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:31:38.3 |
Well it’s like, um, like what I said about, uh, everything. Like, your good work being a culmination of all this on the right. |
168 |
| 00:31:49.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:31:49.9 |
And, you know, from doing good work you create a style, you…you evolve a style. And then that style is really important because it’s what distinguishes you from everybody else’s good work. |
168 |
| 00:32:05.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:05.9 |
But when industry probes you, they put that style into [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:32:13.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:14.3 |
Yeah. It becomes trendy or it’s there ’cause it’s trendy. And then, in a bit, it’ll become untrendy and you have to sit around being untrendy, waiting for your trendy thing to come back into… |
168 |
| 00:32:30.8 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:32:32.3 |
…the cycle of fashion. |
168 |
| 00:32:33.0 |
Okay. So they could mould you into something that you’re… I’m getting the essence of what you’re talking about is timeless… and you think in order to beam up and get money, that you might have to contort your work to be, as you said, on trend, rather than a timeless quality to it? |
IJS |
| 00:33:04.3 |
Yeah, I think that’s…that’s pretty accurate. I mean, for me, uh, good work is timeless and that’s when work becomes good. |
168 |
| 00:33:12.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:33:13.3 |
Um. And then it almost feels like when it’s done for industry or it’s had too much involvement with industry, perhaps, when it’s too much motivated by industry, it loses its sincerity. |
168 |
| 00:33:30.9 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:33:32.3 |
Well that’s what…that’s what can risk happening. |
168 |
| 00:33:34.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:33:35.0 |
So it’s…it’s the constant divide between [clearing throat] surviving, making one happy, buying a Ferrari at the end of the day or Pandora [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:33:46.0 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:33:46.6 |
Which it [unclear]. [laughing] Or, you know, living in the other bit so you can make good work. |
168 |
| 00:33:58.4 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:33:58.9 |
I guess it’s…it’s…it’s…it’s interesting because I’m stuck in an alleyway sitting on [unclear] box or whatever. All… making good work and it’ll be good work to me because [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:34:14.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:34:15.4 |
But nobody else is going to see it. |
168 |
| 00:34:16.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:34:17.2 |
So it’s like a struggle between, um, getting recognition by other people for the good things that you do and not letting the good, timeless things go to waste, get eaten up by something that’s insincere or…or not…doesn’t have the best intentions. |
168 |
| 00:34:43.2 |
Mm. There’s a real tension. ‘Cause [unclear] like that money. The implication there is it may also bring you some recognition? |
IJS |
| 00:34:55.6 |
But there’s no guarantee. |
168 |
| 00:34:57.2 |
Okay. Alright. |
IJS |
| 00:35:02.3 |
It’s like you need…you need the two. |
168 |
| 00:35:04.2 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:35:05.3 |
But you have to find the right balance. |
168 |
| 00:35:06.4 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:35:07.5 |
And I could actually draw a massive, um, scale, a balancing scale. That would be quite nice. |
168 |
| 00:35:13.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:35:15.5 |
[sniffing] [rustling of sheet] [mumbling] |
168 |
| 00:35:40.4 |
Okay. That’s a scale. What’s on that end of the scale, then? What’s on the other side of the scale? |
IJS |
| 00:35:48.0 |
This is… |
168 |
| 00:35:52.1 |
[unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:35:53.8 |
Yeah, yeah, yes. So it’s… |
168 |
| 00:35:59.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:36:00.5 |
…industry, um, personal kind of… |
168 |
| 00:36:05.0 |
So that is… |
IJS |
| 00:36:08.0 |
So that can be money [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:36:16.5 |
But also potential recognition. |
IJS |
| 00:36:32.4 |
Mm. [rustling of sheet]. Transitions. |
168 |
| 00:36:42.1 |
[unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:36:44.3 |
It’s a ghost, and it’s a ghost because it’s really scary, that transition period. |
168 |
| 00:36:57.4 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:36:57.7 |
And it’s the scary ghost of [unclear]: ‘You’re good enough to attend art school’… |
168 |
| 00:37:06.3 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:37:07.6 |
…’You are not good enough to attend art school.’ |
168 |
| 00:37:10.2 |
Mm. Ghoulish, then? |
IJS |
| 00:37:13.2 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:37:14.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:37:15.2 |
It’s ugly because it has the potential to be a nice interesting thing – ghosts. They’re great and I love them but they are scary. |
168 |
| 00:37:26.8 |
Uh-huh. And that’s going into that? |
IJS |
| 00:37:31.5 |
Yeah, because fear is totally present in all these things. But it’s just not going to [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:37:37.2 |
Alright. That’s coming in, realising this. [sound of police siren] There’s now a transition from here to professional. Now it’s coming up, kind of reasonably immediate. |
IJS |
| 00:37:53.8 |
Right around the corner. |
168 |
| 00:37:55.0 |
Yeah. What do you visualise that transition as being? |
IJS |
| 00:38:00.4 |
What, this transition? |
168 |
| 00:38:01.8 |
The transition from your graphic education to after graphic education. Profession, maybe industry. |
IJS |
| 00:38:14.6 |
[pause] [rustling of sheet] I’m trying to think of how to draw reward… [rustling of sheet]. I think the Sun is quite rewarding. |
168 |
| 00:38:35.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:38:36.3 |
Because it’s always present, kind of… I was thinking about this the other day. If the sun was your girlfriend, she’d be the perfect girlfriend… because she’d always come back to you the next day. |
168 |
| 00:38:46.1 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:38:47.0 |
No matter how much you [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:38:48.2 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:38:49.1 |
Um. So the sun is like… a reward [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:39:00.5 |
That sounds to me… That transition sounds really easy. It sounds like all you need to do is go into the daylight. Go outside, hope there’s no clouds and you’ll get the reward. |
IJS |
| 00:39:13.5 |
Yeah, definitely. Well even if there are clouds, it’s…it’s all about, like…it’s not…it’s not a physical sun. It’s like a positive mental attitude. |
168 |
| 00:39:24.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:39:25.8 |
So, you know, from [unclear] all this, making the good work and moving on from it… |
168 |
| 00:39:32.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:39:33.1 |
…you get the reward of mental clarity and not having to worry about these things anymore. |
168 |
| 00:39:39.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:39:41.6 |
You get this… From that [sound of phone] mental clarity, which is the reward for it all, you get kind of basking in the warmth of that clarity. And it is in the sun [unclear]. |
168 |
| 00:39:53.5 |
Okay. Right. Well, it is, uh, what? Nearly ten months’ now, um, let’s call it a year. |
IJS |
| 00:40:05.3 |
Mm. |
168 |
| 00:40:05.9 |
You’ve got this year ahead remaining in this graphic education. Given everything you’ve got on here, what is the very best use of that time for you, this next year, here? |
IJS |
| 00:40:23.1 |
Mm. [rustling of sheet] Um. [unclear] rope. |
168 |
| 00:40:52.1 |
[unclear] rope. |
IJS |
| 00:40:53.4 |
Yeah. |
168 |
| 00:40:53.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:40:55.3 |
[mumbling] Uh, the best use of this year would be to get as much help as possible. |
168 |
| 00:41:07.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:41:08.4 |
[mumbling] |
168 |
| 00:41:10.8 |
So is that you wringing this rope for? |
IJS |
| 00:41:14.2 |
Yeah. Yeah, get as much of it as possible. Make… utilise the time, the time that’s left. |
168 |
| 00:41:23.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:41:25.1 |
Um. |
168 |
| 00:41:26.6 |
And how would you draw that? |
IJS |
| 00:41:28.2 |
Well, I might start with, my, tutors… |
168 |
| 00:41:33.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:41:34.8 |
…and… [rustling of sheet] |
168 |
| 00:41:46.2 |
So [unclear] having that…another voice or a…a… |
IJS |
| 00:41:56.6 |
Yeah, their experience… |
168 |
| 00:41:58.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:41:58.6 |
…’cause they’ve been there and done what I’m about to do. |
168 |
| 00:42:01.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:42:02.2 |
That still leaves… [rustling of sheet] Um. [mumbling] Uh, also [unclear]. And we’ll all be happy. |
168 |
| 00:42:38.9 |
Great. Good luck with that. |
IJS |
