| Start Time |
Transcript |
Speaker |
| 00:00:00.0 |
What shape, size, symbol- What shape symbol or image would you use to represent your graphic education and what size of it and where would it go on this sheet? Your graphic education. What shape, symbol, image would you use to represent it on the sheet and where would it go? [long pause] [rustling of sheet] That’s a pretty definitive circle. Explain that to me. |
IJS |
| 00:00:49.3 |
Um. There’s not exactly a starting point. |
140 |
| 00:00:54.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:00:56.7 |
And there’s no edges, there’s no, like, defined direction but there’s, like, all directions. |
140 |
| 00:01:05.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:01:06.9 |
So it’s kind of like my radar. |
140 |
| 00:01:10.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:01:12.9 |
Looking out over whatever’s to come. |
140 |
| 00:01:15.5 |
Okay. Is that… So would that be the image you’d use? A radar? |
IJS |
| 00:01:19.6 |
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I’d add more…um…but. [pause] Particularly not… focused. |
140 |
| 00:01:36.5 |
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This is your graphic education and it’s not that it’s directional, it’s just that the possibilities are all directions. |
IJS |
| 00:01:53.2 |
Yeah. I don’t…I don’t see the shape as having an angle or being directionless. |
140 |
| 00:02:00.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:02:01.5 |
But…but to be a shape, I think a circle. |
140 |
| 00:02:06.4 |
Okay. So that’s your graphic education, then. If I said to you, ‘What does that compose of? What parts of it are there? What divisions are there to that graphic education? How would you represent those divisions of your graphic education, then?’ |
IJS |
| 00:02:25.1 |
There’s the image. |
140 |
| 00:02:28.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:02:30.2 |
[rustling of sheet] But I’d see that as kind of…like a… lump [rustling of sheet]. Like an eye. |
140 |
| 00:02:45.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:02:46.6 |
But then there’s, like, the…the thought of it. |
140 |
| 00:02:54.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:02:56.3 |
It’s like… the other side of the circle. It’s like what… ‘Why am I doing this?’ |
140 |
| 00:03:06.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:03:06.7 |
Can it be… Can you write? |
140 |
| 00:03:08.9 |
Of course you can, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:03:09.7 |
[rustling of sheet] It’s that connection. |
140 |
| 00:03:17.7 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:03:18.2 |
And that’s, like, confusing, I guess. |
140 |
| 00:03:21.7 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:03:23.7 |
It exists, like, somewhere in my head. Like that cloud. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:03:29.3 |
Uh-huh. So the cloud brings up for me… the sense of sky, floating, um, but also of obscuring as well. You can’t see through? |
IJS |
| 00:03:48.1 |
Yeah. I think…that’s always seen as, like, the destination to go – to the image. |
140 |
| 00:04:05.0 |
So you’re… Okay, so it’s sort of why and it’s destined towards the image. |
IJS |
| 00:04:09.8 |
Yeah. I think so. |
140 |
| 00:04:10.9 |
So the image is the production? |
IJS |
| 00:04:14.6 |
Yeah. It’s like the constant thing. |
140 |
| 00:04:17.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:04:17.5 |
It’s like…like the picture. |
140 |
| 00:04:24.6 |
And is that much clearer to you than that, then? |
IJS |
| 00:04:30.9 |
Yeah. ‘Cause…well that’s why text, like, I can only explain why in words… |
140 |
| 00:04:37.9 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:04:38.4 |
…until it becomes an image and then… it needs the ‘why’. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense. |
140 |
| 00:04:47.4 |
Okay. Yeah. Okay. This is graphic education. We all go through ups and downs. What are the chall- If you’ve had any challenges in your graphic education, how would you represent them on here? |
IJS |
| 00:05:07.0 |
[long pause] I guess the challenge is myself. [rustling of sheet] It’s…challenging the way I work. |
140 |
| 00:05:36.2 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:05:38.7 |
[rustling of sheet] It’s like other people… challenging the way you work. |
140 |
| 00:05:53.8 |
Uhu-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:05:55.0 |
Maybe feeling a bit boxed-in. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:06:05.2 |
So that boxed-in- It feels quite- The boxed-in feels quite, uh, [unclear] there. Almost vicious… |
IJS |
| 00:06:21.0 |
Mm. |
140 |
| 00:06:21.5 |
…in it. Is that the nature of it? |
IJS |
| 00:06:24.4 |
Yeah. Um. [pause] I think from- I think it’s more, like, the purpose of the course in the first place puts the box around what I want to do. |
140 |
| 00:06:44.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:06:45.7 |
So it’s like- It’s like the imposed purpose. |
140 |
| 00:06:52.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:06:53.7 |
Like that- Like this box is made for you because you’re a graphic designer. |
140 |
| 00:06:59.8 |
Okay. Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:07:01.7 |
But I don’t know how to represent that. |
140 |
| 00:07:03.9 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:07:04.4 |
Unless I write it in. |
140 |
| 00:07:05.3 |
Well you can write it if you want. |
IJS |
| 00:07:10.5 |
[rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:07:25.3 |
And that is someone else telling you that? |
IJS |
| 00:07:30.7 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:07:33.1 |
The course, in a way. |
IJS |
| 00:07:34.7 |
Yeah, in a way, but I… I started… I wanted to, like, do graphics. |
140 |
| 00:07:44.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:07:45.5 |
Um. But then it’s, it’s like, the purpose behind doing it is – always questioning the ‘why’. So I think, like, over time [rustling of sheet], I find it kind of… [rustling of sheet] I’ve made myself question why this box is here. |
140 |
| 00:08:17.3 |
Mm. [rustling of sheet] Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:08:28.5 |
‘Cause there’s always someone else in design. [rustling of sheet] There’s always the other person that sort of… [rustling of sheet] I don’t know how to put it. The person there. They’re like the brief, like the anonymous brand sort of thing. |
140 |
| 00:08:52.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:08:52.7 |
Sort of the aspiration of something, you’re trying to fulfil that aspiration. |
140 |
| 00:08:57.8 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:08:58.3 |
It’s like selling to people. |
140 |
| 00:09:02.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:09:03.0 |
It’s like the empty kind of desire. |
140 |
| 00:09:06.3 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:09:07.5 |
I don’t know how that manifests itself. |
140 |
| 00:09:13.1 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:09:15.1 |
[unclear] a painful wanting [unclear] money kind of drives that [unclear]. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:09:56.8 |
Mm, that’s not the symbol I was expecting. Love? [rustling of sheet] |
IJS |
| 00:10:19.0 |
It’s like the desire to… [rustling of sheet] want something. |
140 |
| 00:10:30.2 |
That’s not your desire, is it? |
IJS |
| 00:10:32.8 |
No, it’s someone else’s. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:10:34.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:10:35.0 |
But [rustling of sheet] it’s… |
140 |
| 00:10:45.0 |
Yeah? [pause] What a hell of a challenge. |
IJS |
| 00:10:51.9 |
Yeah. But it’s… it’s set out as a challenge worth achieving. |
140 |
| 00:10:59.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:11:00.1 |
To be, I don’t see that – I don’t see where that would, like – I don’t see what that achieves. Apart from [pause] more money. But, uh… |
140 |
| 00:11:16.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:11:17.2 |
But graphics can be, like, beautiful as well. |
140 |
| 00:11:21.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:11:22.2 |
Like you can’t escape the image. That’s why it’s a box. |
140 |
| 00:11:25.8 |
Right. So if you have highlights of your graphic education? |
IJS |
| 00:11:31.8 |
Uh… |
140 |
| 00:11:32.9 |
Something that might relate to that. |
IJS |
| 00:11:35.9 |
Yeah, I’ve had, like, approval from people… |
140 |
| 00:11:38.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:11:39.7 |
…saying, like, ‘Well done.’ |
140 |
| 00:11:41.6 |
Uh-huh. How would you represent that? |
IJS |
| 00:11:46.7 |
[rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:12:23.0 |
Is that a hand of support, a hand of… applause? |
IJS |
| 00:12:27.6 |
Yes. It’s like… [rustling of sheet]… the applause. [rustling of sheet]. |
140 |
| 00:12:57.1 |
Right. Okay. so we’ve got a sense of graphic education here. The, um, the divisions of it, challenges, highlights. What I’d like you to think about next is, when you think of your wider life ahead – so let’s put profession aside for a moment – your wider life ahead, spiritual, creative, cultural, family, those kind of things, not professional just now (we’ll come back to that). When you think ahead to that, are there certain things you see in that or are you not, um… or is it hazy and blank? I suppose it’s getting to think of hopes and aspirations in a sense, you know, in a wider life, rather than profession. |
IJS |
| 00:13:56.3 |
It’s definitely a – It’s a place. |
140 |
| 00:13:58.8 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:13:59.7 |
It’s not… it’s not a blank place. |
140 |
| 00:14:01.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:14:02.6 |
But it’s like… the travel. |
140 |
| 00:14:08.5 |
Travel? |
IJS |
| 00:14:09.7 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:14:10.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:14:10.9 |
And it’s always going to be, like, a new place. |
140 |
| 00:14:12.7 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:14:13.7 |
I’ve never really stayed put in one place. |
140 |
| 00:14:16.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:14:16.9 |
In like the same place. So it’s definitely… it’s definitely like a place. [rustling of sheet] It’s like another destination. |
140 |
| 00:14:35.8 |
Uh-huh. [rustling of sheet] Okay. So it’s a sense of movement. |
IJS |
| 00:14:58.0 |
Mm, yeah. |
140 |
| 00:14:58.9 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:14:59.8 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:15:00.1 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:15:01.3 |
I don’t know spiritually if there’s… It’s like a, like a… religion playing a part. |
140 |
| 00:15:11.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:15:12.3 |
It’s definitely like a fascination. Of the world. |
140 |
| 00:15:26.7 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:15:27.8 |
So it’s like learning… following on the ‘why’. |
140 |
| 00:15:34.5 |
Okay. So this is the ‘why’ coming out of graphic education into wider world. [rustling of sheet]. So what’s that? |
IJS |
| 00:15:44.3 |
Yeah. It’s like a movement. |
140 |
| 00:15:51.0 |
Uh-huh. Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:15:51.0 |
It’s like following the… following the ‘why’. |
140 |
| 00:15:56.8 |
Right. Sort of flow. |
IJS |
| 00:15:59.7 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:16:00.4 |
Uh, wider life then, this sense of movement, let’s focus on your professional life, then. In maybe a year or so, with this professional life ahead, what does that look like to you? |
IJS |
| 00:16:25.4 |
It’s probably stumbling around this. |
140 |
| 00:16:30.2 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:16:31.6 |
Until…until, like, I’m confident enough. Until I get enough Bs! [laughing] |
140 |
| 00:16:42.8 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:16:43.2 |
To be confident enough to do something else. |
140 |
| 00:16:45.5 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:16:46.6 |
[rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:16:52.7 |
That sounds…that, un, passion, that desire, desire you talked about…sounds hard to deliver. ‘Cause those were other people’s desires. You say your profession is based in other people’s desires. |
IJS |
| 00:17:17.2 |
Yes, like solving other people’s problems or not even… ‘Solving’ sounds like… I don’t know. I don’t really see it as a positive thing, what’s going on. |
140 |
| 00:17:28.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:17:29.2 |
It’s more of a, ‘How can you make this better for us?’ kind of thing. |
140 |
| 00:17:34.9 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:17:35.3 |
Like, ‘How can we use you… |
140 |
| 00:17:36.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:17:37.8 |
…to make us better?’ And I don’t… It’s like I want to stray away from, like, this person. If this is a person. |
140 |
| 00:17:51.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:17:52.6 |
It felt to someone like the idea of something… |
140 |
| 00:17:57.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:17:58.8 |
…something that’d, like, be more permanent. Maybe it’s a house. That people can visit. |
140 |
| 00:18:18.4 |
For what? |
IJS |
| 00:18:19.8 |
For…future recognition or… |
140 |
| 00:18:28.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:18:28.9 |
Something that stays put. |
140 |
| 00:18:33.0 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:18:33.9 |
Rather than just meanders along. |
140 |
| 00:18:37.5 |
So something, um, uh…permanent? |
IJS |
| 00:18:42.9 |
Yeah. Yeah, I want to say that, like… |
140 |
| 00:18:45.7 |
Sustaining. |
IJS |
| 00:18:46.7 |
…the idea of the home’s just sustainable. |
140 |
| 00:18:49.4 |
Uh-huh. Sustainable. |
IJS |
| 00:18:51.0 |
So it’s…yeah. |
140 |
| 00:18:52.6 |
Enduring, then? |
IJS |
| 00:18:54.0 |
Yeah. Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:18:56.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:18:57.8 |
Yeah, I want to… be a little column. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:19:13.0 |
Like a Corinthian column? |
IJS |
| 00:19:15.7 |
Mm. Or I build something, like, in my career, instead of…do…how other people’s thoughts. |
140 |
| 00:19:26.9 |
Yeah? That also, that column is…occur to you about that and the column is, um…a really supportive feature of architecture, isn’t it? |
IJS |
| 00:19:42.4 |
Mm. |
140 |
| 00:19:43.5 |
It’s…it’s…supporting something. |
IJS |
| 00:19:46.2 |
Yes. |
140 |
| 00:19:46.7 |
Quite often, um, quite a strong feature of a building. |
IJS |
| 00:19:52.1 |
Yeah. I want it to be my feature. |
140 |
| 00:19:56.0 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:19:56.3 |
But it’s always- I want it to…I want it to be here, though. [rustling of sheet] I want it to be in this future idea. Something that’s, like, [rustling of sheet] going to be still in the future. |
140 |
| 00:20:12.9 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:20:13.6 |
Or live in the future when I’m not there. |
140 |
| 00:20:14.9 |
Okay. So it’s important that what you produce in your profession lives beyond you? |
IJS |
| 00:20:23.6 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:20:26.5 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:20:26.8 |
Yeah. Yeah, I wanna…yeah. [rustling of sheet] Not worry about this so much. |
140 |
| 00:20:39.0 |
Which is…? |
IJS |
| 00:20:40.7 |
It’s a clock. |
140 |
| 00:20:41.7 |
A clock, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:20:44.7 |
That’s…that’s always, like, the worry. |
140 |
| 00:20:50.1 |
Uh-huh. What is the worry about the clock? About time. |
IJS |
| 00:20:58.0 |
It’s like the pressure. |
140 |
| 00:20:59.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:21:00.4 |
[rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:21:14.1 |
Okay. We’ve got, uh, an essence of your profession there and this sense of…that you want to produce something quite supportive and strong, that survives even after you. We hear an awful lot in graphic design about industry – ‘the industry’. I want to bring that into this. This industry, I mean, a few things to you before I want you to make a mark, but I want you to think about character about industry. Where in relation to this other stuff does this industry belong on here? Are you inside, outside or somehow both? Within this industry, is it constantly changing? What are the boundaries and edges of this industry? And quite importantly, what’s the name of the industry you’ll be in or around or on the side? So we’ve talked about the industry, people from industry. What’s the name of this industry and what’s it look like? [long pause] [unclear] as well. |
IJS |
| 00:22:56.7 |
Mm. |
140 |
| 00:22:57.0 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:22:57.5 |
Yeah. Although there is an aspiration… |
140 |
| 00:23:02.8 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:23:02.9 |
…to be…to, like, do…do this thing. But yeah, I guess the industry’s like… I don’t know. I need… This is where the industry comes from. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:23:26.3 |
Around the applause? |
IJS |
| 00:23:28.4 |
Yeah. It’s like the books and the recognition and the… It’s the celebrity of it all. [rustling of sheet] It’s the just… I don’t know. A lot of it’s this but then, like, people that…I might aspire to…just… I don’t know. |
140 |
| 00:24:03.7 |
Mm. In the part there? |
IJS |
| 00:24:09.4 |
Yeah. That’s like the… I don’t know. The sort of conflict of… |
140 |
| 00:24:17.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:24:18.5 |
…wanting to do something…so you could be a part of this industry, ’cause it’s like everywhere. |
140 |
| 00:24:27.7 |
Mm. So [unclear], applause. It’s coming from this industry, which is really quite dominating on here. |
IJS |
| 00:24:41.9 |
Yeah. I think it’s dominating in my world at the moment. |
140 |
| 00:24:46.9 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:24:47.5 |
But I think my future seems to be in something else. Like the other… I don’t know. It seems almost like inescapable when you start doing design. |
140 |
| 00:24:59.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:25:00.3 |
‘Cause everything you look at is designed. Or, like, has been questioned by designers… |
140 |
| 00:25:07.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:25:07.6 |
…and there’s just, like, it’s not really… It’s a world of knowledge but then there’s like a well to fall into. |
140 |
| 00:25:15.0 |
Uh-huh. [unclear] [rustling of sheet] And what’s that? |
IJS |
| 00:25:34.7 |
That’s…that’s the pool. |
140 |
| 00:25:39.6 |
Yeah. It looks like a whirlpool there, not just a… |
IJS |
| 00:25:43.9 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:25:44.8 |
It’s not a jacuzzi, is it?! [laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:25:46.1 |
No, no. Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:25:49.6 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:25:49.9 |
I think we’ve… Trying to find, like, purpose to do something. |
140 |
| 00:25:58.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:25:59.6 |
It’s somewhere inside the pool that you have to dive into. |
140 |
| 00:26:04.7 |
Right. You’ve got to need to be taken by this whirlpool? |
IJS |
| 00:26:09.0 |
Yeah. Yeah, you need to be wrapped up in it and do bits of this. |
140 |
| 00:26:13.7 |
What’s that industry called, then? |
IJS |
| 00:26:16.4 |
It’s… [pause] I don’t know. [pause] It’s not just communication ’cause… |
140 |
| 00:26:32.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:26:33.3 |
Well, I don’t know. You can’t really turn off communication. |
140 |
| 00:26:39.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:26:40.4 |
That’s the thing. Like, if you look at something, like you’re always communicating with it in some way. And that tends to, like, slow boil into something else or an idea. It’s like it’s no longer a subliminal world. It’s just glaring at you. |
140 |
| 00:26:59.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:27:00.6 |
It’s definitely got an eye. I think it’s the eye. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:27:04.1 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:27:05.1 |
It’s like the image…the image… |
140 |
| 00:27:08.6 |
The image industry, then? What…? |
IJS |
| 00:27:13.4 |
[long pause] On the one hand it’s about communicating with people. But then it’s, like, also the inescapable, almost like litter than [unclear]. |
140 |
| 00:27:42.3 |
Okay. [unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:27:46.5 |
So it’s like the… I don’t know. I think it is litter. |
140 |
| 00:27:54.8 |
Litter. Isn’t that a kind of… you’re in the litter industry? Yeah, okay. |
IJS |
| 00:28:07.0 |
It’s like the instant, disposable… It’s not the tower. |
140 |
| 00:28:14.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:28:15.5 |
It’s… |
140 |
| 00:28:16.9 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:28:19.5 |
…the commercial art. |
140 |
| 00:28:20.4 |
Uh-huh. Okay. Let’s have a think about, if you’ve got some domains here, you’ve got graphic education, wider life, professional, industry. I want you to think about, um, thresholds from one to the other. First of all, your graphic education. What did it feel like when you came into graphic education? Was that pathway easy and accessible? Um, was it intimidating? Is that what…? What was it like coming into graphic education? |
IJS |
| 00:29:01.5 |
It was fun. It was knowing that… it was knowing that these things are thought about. |
140 |
| 00:29:09.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:29:10.4 |
There’s a designer – Someone’s sitting behind a desk. |
140 |
| 00:29:13.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:29:14.0 |
It’s… Yeah, it’s like, this very beginning. |
140 |
| 00:29:19.0 |
Yes. |
IJS |
| 00:29:20.6 |
Yeah, it is exciting. |
140 |
| 00:29:26.1 |
How would you represent that excitement? That… |
IJS |
| 00:29:34.3 |
It’s kind of like the reveal. The curtain. |
140 |
| 00:29:39.1 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:29:40.0 |
[rustling of sheet] It’s that initial… this was made by someone for this purpose. |
140 |
| 00:29:55.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:29:56.2 |
‘Did you know?’ It’s like the ‘Did you know?’ bit. |
140 |
| 00:30:01.1 |
Right. It’s not just the curtain, though. It’s kind of the, um, the backdrop to the stage coming up, whilst you’re watching it. |
IJS |
| 00:30:09.8 |
Yeah. It’s like, before there was some kind of veil over the eye. |
140 |
| 00:30:13.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:30:14.4 |
And now that’s been lifted off. |
140 |
| 00:30:16.4 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:30:17.6 |
So it’s like… learning yourself. |
140 |
| 00:30:23.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:30:23.5 |
And that’s, like, really, really cool. |
140 |
| 00:30:27.4 |
Yeah. Great. That’s coming into graphics education. Now there’s in… less than a year, perhaps, there’s the ‘out’ from education into, um, this profession. |
IJS |
| 00:30:49.5 |
Mm. |
140 |
| 00:30:50.4 |
What does that feel like to you now, that threshold? |
IJS |
| 00:30:57.2 |
[laughing] Um. [pause] It’s quite a lot of following. It’s… it’s like, kind of, along the most-trodden path. |
140 |
| 00:31:18.1 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:31:19.2 |
Until you find how to get on the other path. |
140 |
| 00:31:23.1 |
Right. Is that being where people are… are… where you see where the council haven’t built a path and… but people are still walking? |
IJS |
| 00:31:35.0 |
Yeah. The desire lines, yeah. |
140 |
| 00:31:36.5 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:31:37.6 |
I really like those, though. |
140 |
| 00:31:38.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:31:39.8 |
I like that that’s an actual thing and they’ve got a name for it. |
140 |
| 00:31:43.0 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:31:43.6 |
It’s kind of nice to know. |
140 |
| 00:31:44.9 |
Desire. |
IJS |
| 00:31:45.8 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:31:47.0 |
What you were talking about here. |
IJS |
| 00:31:48.3 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:31:48.8 |
And you’ve got to follow these desire lines. |
IJS |
| 00:31:51.9 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:31:52.7 |
But the indication was you’re following those design lines to get somewhere else, not to where everyone else is. |
IJS |
| 00:31:59.8 |
Yeah, it’s… It’s like I…I like the circle until it gets too big and once you’ve, like, absorbed enough then you can, like, make a hole in it. |
140 |
| 00:32:14.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:15.1 |
So I guess it’s… it’s finding the hole out. |
140 |
| 00:32:23.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:25.1 |
To, like, get away from this. |
140 |
| 00:32:27.4 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:32:28.1 |
Then that goes… to me. |
140 |
| 00:32:35.6 |
Yeah, that’s right. So there’s kind of a sense there of – ‘a hole out’ – that sounds like an escape. |
IJS |
| 00:32:45.7 |
Yeah. Yeah. I think you need to sit inside something for long enough to get bored. |
140 |
| 00:32:54.9 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:32:55.8 |
Or realise that there’s, like, something else. |
140 |
| 00:33:01.4 |
So you took that industry as you, there, and used to produce in that way. But you can flip that to use them. |
IJS |
| 00:33:16.0 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:33:17.3 |
In industry. |
IJS |
| 00:33:19.0 |
It’s kind of like, I don’t know, it seems like following people, or the way people have done it before. |
140 |
| 00:33:26.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:33:27.4 |
I don’t see it as like using the industry. |
140 |
| 00:33:29.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:33:30.2 |
It’s more just, like, if you’re already in the machine then you don’t really think about using those inside it. So it’s just going to the first placement and then the first thing and then working for a year or two or something, take a year out, realising you don’t want to do it and then going to another industry, da da da. It’s just reiterating the stories that you hear from people. |
140 |
| 00:33:59.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:34:00.5 |
There’s always that bit where they say, ‘Oh yeah, I wanted to do my own design agency so I said, ‘Fuck it, and I did it.’ |
140 |
| 00:34:08.1 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:34:09.0 |
And then that’s like the sort of why they’re here in the first place. They wouldn’t be here if they were just talking about their five-year history going from, like, one design agency to another, doing a bit of, like, fluff here and there. Getting, like, an award or two. It’s like… the moment they step outside the norms… |
140 |
| 00:34:29.3 |
[unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:34:31.0 |
Yeah, yeah. |
140 |
| 00:34:32.4 |
[unclear]. |
IJS |
| 00:34:36.6 |
Yeah. I think people like the idea of kind of… But this is so, like, fast, it’s like… Yeah, it’s kind of scary to think that once you’re inside it you might never come out. |
140 |
| 00:34:50.5 |
[laughing] Right. Yeah. So, you’ve got a year left of your education. I’m wondering, based on all this, what is the very best use of that remaining time you’ve got here? |
IJS |
| 00:35:18.8 |
[long pause] [sighing] Mm. I don’t know. Part of me feels like I should just do what I can to be better at designing or just improve, and then just get some kind of momentum in this space here. But there’s not a… ‘Cause I don’t know. I feel like I’m quite – there’s quite a lot of people on the course that are older than me. |
140 |
| 00:36:15.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:36:16.0 |
But I don’t know how, like, how they think about their own time. I don’t really know if it’s worth going through the motions and then figuring out what I want to do or just, like, just going ahead and doing, like, just… I don’t know if it’s worth, like, making a window or making a hole, so to speak… |
140 |
| 00:36:42.8 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:36:43.7 |
…in the box. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:36:44.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:36:45.2 |
So there’s a window or there’s a hole. And I don’t know which one. It’s like keeping inside this area, this box. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:36:58.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:36:59.0 |
And just looking out and just waiting for the right moment or just stepping out of it. |
140 |
| 00:37:06.6 |
Right. Coming out of the box? |
IJS |
| 00:37:08.7 |
Yeah, and… |
140 |
| 00:37:09.6 |
In this remaining time. And see what’s there? |
IJS |
| 00:37:14.3 |
I don’t know how to measure, like, really, the value of, like, time remaining, I guess. |
140 |
| 00:37:21.5 |
Yeah. How will you get to know which of those? |
IJS |
| 00:37:30.7 |
Or will I get to know? |
140 |
| 00:37:34.0 |
How will you get to know? |
IJS |
| 00:37:35.4 |
How will I get to know? |
140 |
| 00:37:36.1 |
How will you get to know whether you should… |
IJS |
| 00:37:37.6 |
I don’t know. |
140 |
| 00:37:38.2 |
…look through the window or…? |
IJS |
| 00:37:39.6 |
I think I’ve just relied on – I think everyone relies on just the recognition or applause or something, of doing whatever. But I don’t know. |
140 |
| 00:37:54.9 |
Is there time to do both? |
IJS |
| 00:37:56.4 |
Yeah. The hole is scarier than the window. |
140 |
| 00:38:00.6 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:38:01.8 |
I mean, I’m already in the box, if you know what I mean, so… |
140 |
| 00:38:05.1 |
[laughing] There’s a safety to the box, in a way. |
IJS |
| 00:38:08.1 |
Yeah. If I wasn’t doing graphic design then I might already – you know, I’d be doing something else. |
140 |
| 00:38:12.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:38:12.7 |
But now I’m inside the box it’s nicer just to look out the window and think about doing stuff later on. |
140 |
| 00:38:18.6 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:38:19.3 |
Or to start having some sort of confidence. I don’t know. There’s like, a confidence factor. |
140 |
| 00:38:25.1 |
Mm. It perhaps has something to do with applauding yourself. |
IJS |
| 00:38:29.5 |
Huh? |
140 |
| 00:38:30.2 |
It might be something to do with applauding yourself. |
IJS |
| 00:38:32.7 |
Yeah. [pause] Yeah. [long pause] [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:39:57.7 |
I have to say, you’re thinking quite hard about that! [laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:40:00.8 |
[laughing] It kind of feels like I’ve taken these steps and then I’m, like – I feel like I’ve done something, I’ve been positive. |
140 |
| 00:40:20.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:40:20.6 |
Like on – my choice, my choices so far. And it’s all been quite linear – going to school, going to college and then going to university and then, ‘Oh, what’s the next bit? Oh.’ ‘Oh, and then you’ll go to a placement and then you’ll go a design industry and you’ll do this and you’ll do that. And then maybe you’ll get an award and then maybe you’ll do this. And perhaps in five years’ time you’ll come back and do a talk at the university and then people will want to get to know you and you’ll have some emails going through and you’ll be…’ And it’s like… It does feel positive but then there’s always, like – I don’t know, I’ve never really felt that I’ve done great work or anything like that. Haven’t really won any awards. I don’t know, it’s just… You just kind of meander along with everyone else. It just feels like you can keep your head above the water, just. I found it really, really, like…well, it was like, I think pretty much the only reason I came here was because of the poster on the wall of my college, and it was just, like, obvious that that was a good place to go to then. So I applied here and it was good and I got in. |
140 |
| 00:41:35.4 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:41:36.2 |
Thankfully. |
140 |
| 00:41:37.7 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:41:38.3 |
So this… I don’t know. This, this… seems really positive so I don’t… I don’t – It’s like, scary, like thinking about anything else apart from just, like, going along with that. |
140 |
| 00:41:51.0 |
Uh-huh. But you said you’re here at the moment. One way is a window looking out. One way is a way out of the box. [unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:42:04.5 |
I think I’m thinking, like, there’s no, like, half and half but… |
140 |
| 00:42:08.9 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:42:09.9 |
…I think I’ve recently, like last year and stuff there were some projects that I really enjoyed, and like this year, I’m trying to really pursue what I might be wanting to do in the future. |
140 |
| 00:42:23.7 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:42:24.5 |
So that’s been quite positive. |
140 |
| 00:42:26.8 |
So it might be like running out the box a while? |
IJS |
| 00:42:30.0 |
Yeah. Yeah, it’s like grabbing some stuff to put inside and just hopefully no one notices… |
140 |
| 00:42:36.2 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:42:36.7 |
…that you’re still, like, with everyone else going. |
140 |
| 00:42:38.2 |
Yeah. That’s quite a good strategy. |
IJS |
| 00:42:42.2 |
Yeah. Yeah, I think I just need, like, a rope. [rustling of sheet] Just like a little lifeline of what keeps me, like, interested in the subject. |
140 |
| 00:42:54.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:42:55.2 |
Is probably outside of most people’s boxes. |
140 |
| 00:42:59.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:43:00.0 |
But, um, yeah. I have really enjoyed doing this but sometimes it just seems a bit daunting that when you leave uni, you don’t really have the freedom to choose stuff necessarily and then it becomes, like, money-orientated. |
140 |
| 00:43:24.6 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:43:24.9 |
Not just that. It’s like the choice, I guess. But I think, like, as soon as I leave uni, the choices will be really, really wide and then I know I’m just going to… it’s going to be narrower and narrower and narrower and narrower. |
140 |
| 00:43:41.5 |
[unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:43:45.5 |
Yeah. [laughing] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It’s going to be really – I feel like this is clustered. |
140 |
| 00:43:52.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:43:53.9 |
And there’s, like, rings and rings and rings and rings. |
140 |
| 00:44:02.0 |
But this is moderate future? This is near future? |
IJS |
| 00:44:13.4 |
Yeah. |
140 |
| 00:44:16.1 |
Just step out… |
IJS |
| 00:44:18.2 |
Yeah. Yeah, I guess this is like the rope I want to pull into the box. |
140 |
| 00:44:26.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:44:28.9 |
I don’t know. I don’t like – I always find myself struggling when I’m, like, thinking about why I’m doing something. |
140 |
| 00:44:36.3 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:44:36.8 |
And I don’t know if that’s [rustling of sheet], if that’s the case for everyone, though. [rustling of sheet] |
140 |
| 00:44:42.7 |
So…so that hole is about going out, doing a reccy on why. |
IJS |
| 00:44:52.4 |
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. |
140 |
| 00:45:03.6 |
Good. I think we’re [unclear]. |
IJS |
