| Start Time |
Transcript |
Speaker |
| 00:00:00.0 |
How big is your graphic design education? What shape, symbol or…what shape, symbol or, uh, or representation would you use to represent it? Um. And we’ll be looking to sketch further within that shape later. |
IJS |
| 00:00:21.5 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:00:22.0 |
So your graphic design education. What comes to your mind about it? |
IJS |
| 00:00:26.9 |
What shape or symbol? |
152 |
| 00:00:28.4 |
Yeah. Shape, symbol, form. |
IJS |
| 00:00:33.2 |
Does it have to be one or could it be…? |
152 |
| 00:00:37.8 |
If…if it’s more appropriate to do a few… The next thing I’m going to ask you about is divisions of that graphics design education. |
IJS |
| 00:00:48.3 |
[rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:01:06.3 |
So what are they drawing? |
IJS |
| 00:01:08.1 |
They’re… When I came into graphic design education, I always think of [this institution] [rustling of sheet] and whenever I think of [this institute] I think of the outside of it. |
152 |
| 00:01:20.6 |
Oh yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:01:21.8 |
And kind of blocks and sort of…uh, sort of modernist kind of building… |
152 |
| 00:01:26.4 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:01:26.7 |
…I think that also makes me think of my education. I think when I look back, I always just remember that kind of thing. |
152 |
| 00:01:33.0 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:01:33.7 |
But I think that’s why I’ve done them shapes there. |
152 |
| 00:01:36.0 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:01:36.9 |
Rectangles. |
152 |
| 00:01:37.9 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:01:38.7 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:01:39.1 |
Okay. Yeah. Um. So that’s your initial kind of thought about your graphic design education. |
IJS |
| 00:01:48.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:01:49.4 |
It’s kind of got divisions in it but the next thing I’m asking about is if you had to, um, put divisions in that – so they could be conceptual divisions, um, projects, it could be, um, time, time – what main divisions are there to your graphic education? |
IJS |
| 00:02:10.3 |
Divisions in what sense? |
152 |
| 00:02:13.1 |
It could be the years, um, it could be… |
IJS |
| 00:02:16.2 |
Oh. |
152 |
| 00:02:16.6 |
…conceptually, it could be projects. So if I said to you, ‘How would you divide your graphic design education?’… |
IJS |
| 00:02:24.6 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:02:25.2 |
…what comes to your mind? |
IJS |
| 00:02:26.5 |
Okay. I think if I was to start doing this, I think there’s divisions between the sort of conceptual ideas around graphic design and also the business side of it and that creates almost conflict and divisions between the two, where you’re questioning yourself, ‘Is this for…?’ You know, If you’re not going to be about this, you might be like, but actually, you know, to get a job in another year. And here I am… |
152 |
| 00:02:58.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:02:59.4 |
…doing this arty-farty thing which is not going to mean nothing to a future employer. So I think there’s divisions in that way. |
152 |
| 00:03:04.0 |
Yeah. How do you represent that then on there? |
IJS |
| 00:03:08.5 |
Well I think it’s… |
152 |
| 00:03:10.1 |
You can write. |
IJS |
| 00:03:11.5 |
I think [rustling of sheet], I think it’s almost like a balance, isn’t it? That’s really hard to achieve. And it’s something…that…is always sort of shifting like that. So you’re always sort of…sort of questioning yourself, I think. |
152 |
| 00:03:30.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:03:31.8 |
And yeah, it’s something that shifts between the two. |
152 |
| 00:03:34.7 |
Yeah. Yeah. Between conceptual and…uh, industry? |
IJS |
| 00:03:42.7 |
Yeah, industry. Industry graphic is in, you know, learning the Creative Suite or then doing something other, that’s more conceptual, something that you’re really interested in, which actually uses more towards fine art. |
152 |
| 00:03:55.5 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:03:56.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:03:56.6 |
So can you…can you mark on there, um, by writing or something else, but [rustling of sheet]… |
IJS |
| 00:04:10.8 |
Conflicts between conceptual… [rustling of sheet] and employability. |
152 |
| 00:04:22.0 |
Right. Okay. Yeah. Your graphic design education stands there and there’s this tension in it. Um. Where would you mark in there and what would it look like, any challenges that you’ve had in your graphic design education? |
IJS |
| 00:04:45.4 |
Any challenges. That’s… I’d still say that is the challenge. |
152 |
| 00:04:50.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:04:51.3 |
Is these marks. But I would make that be central. The central thing. |
152 |
| 00:04:57.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:04:58.2 |
It would help then to try and balance these two. One kind of shifts too much this way and then this one shifts too much the other way. |
152 |
| 00:05:07.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:05:07.9 |
That’s how I would use these two marks, ’cause that’s the main challenge, that’s how it is for me. |
152 |
| 00:05:14.5 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:05:15.6 |
And I don’t completely know what’s right and what’s wrong. |
152 |
| 00:05:19.3 |
Uh-huh. Highlights then. Any highlights in your graphics education? |
IJS |
| 00:05:25.8 |
Any highlights? I think there’s highlights… I don’t know how to draw this conceptually but there’s highlights in terms of broadening your mind intellectually. Like I always thought once I’d come to the end of my, you know, school education, that was it, you don’t really learn anymore but actually I’ve learnt more intellectually through being through art school because you take the time to learn your own interests. You know, you might come across a philosopher or a certain artist and actually that really helps you to grow as a person. That’s something I never really… |
152 |
| 00:05:56.0 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:05:56.7 |
…thought would happen. |
152 |
| 00:05:58.3 |
Yeah. Okay. How…how would you represent that on here? |
IJS |
| 00:06:02.0 |
How would I represent that? Oh my God! [laughing] [rustling of sheet] Okay, so… Like I said, you get to the end of your education, you think, ‘That’s…that’s the final thing there. That’s, you know, the level of your education now, going to art school, it’s not like I’m going to challenge myself intellectually.’ |
152 |
| 00:06:24.1 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:06:24.3 |
But actually, it becomes something that becomes higher and then higher a little bit and you’re learning more and you sort of surprise yourself that you’ve sort of grown in that sort of way. |
152 |
| 00:06:39.9 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:06:40.5 |
That you think, you know, ‘If I was doing…let’s say if I didn’t take this path, if I didn’t do this other path and I did hairdressing or something… |
152 |
| 00:06:48.1 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:06:48.8 |
…I would be…you know, I wouldn’t have this…my mind wouldn’t be the same.’ |
152 |
| 00:06:52.2 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:06:53.1 |
So I think that’s a highlight for me. |
152 |
| 00:06:54.8 |
Right. So is that growth of mind then? |
IJS |
| 00:06:57.9 |
Yeah, that’s growth, like sort of secondary school education, from now, and these are the highlights. That sort of step from here to here. [rustling of sheet] And you’re learning, broadening your view of your mind, in a way. |
152 |
| 00:07:11.3 |
Yeah. Okay. Great. Um. Okay. Graphic education then. |
IJS |
| 00:07:18.1 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:07:18.4 |
Fab. Thank you. What I want to look at now is the wider life. We’ll come back to professional, but what’s ahead for you now that this half, this sheet left here… |
IJS |
| 00:07:32.3 |
Yep. |
152 |
| 00:07:32.9 |
…um. So that’s about what you… From your position now, when you look ahead, are there any other hopes and aspirations outside of your profession, um, personal, spiritual, cultural, creative, that kind of thing, um, that you can see at the moment? Or is it blank? |
IJS |
| 00:07:54.8 |
There’s…there’s certain things I’m interested in. |
152 |
| 00:07:59.3 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:08:00.3 |
Sort of career aside. But again, I still feel they’re sort of fitting between these two things. |
152 |
| 00:08:08.0 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:08:09.9 |
And then [rustling of sheet] because I kind of feel when I finish and I need to have a job, if I want to carry on living in [this city] I’ve got to have a secure job, but also there’s certain aspirations I have that I feel I won’t be able to achieve because I’m just thinking about employability, blah, blah, blah. |
152 |
| 00:08:31.3 |
Right. So what are those aspirations then, that you’re thinking about? |
IJS |
| 00:08:34.7 |
Those aspirations would be, um, I enjoy photography. |
152 |
| 00:08:40.7 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:08:42.2 |
So I feel like this year, the beginning of this year…this summer as well, I feel like I got to the point where I suddenly started to see, like, a real start and that was quite exciting. It’s like the start of something. So I think there’s a bit of me that I would like photography. I mean, everyone likes photography but then I’ve got to a certain point where I was like, ‘Actually, this could possibly be something.’ Do you know what I mean? But I don’t know how to achieve that. But it’s quite strange when I look at other…other, like, all the more fine arts side of [this institution]. |
152 |
| 00:09:13.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:09:13.9 |
They don’t seem to have any fears and just go, ‘I’m really good at photography and that…that’s it,’ or ‘I’m going to achieve this.’ And they don’t see any limitations, whereas I see limitations. |
152 |
| 00:09:22.6 |
Yeah. Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:09:23.5 |
So. |
152 |
| 00:09:23.9 |
Yeah. How is that represented on there? |
IJS |
| 00:09:27.3 |
Mm. I don’t know. It’s almost like a…it’s like a fear. |
152 |
| 00:09:35.2 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:09:36.7 |
It’s like a fear, so I guess it would…everything you see, you would think that it’s probably, that it’s just…it’s just black and there’s…it’s quite hard to see past that… [rustling of sheet] that black bit. Do you know what I mean? |
152 |
| 00:09:51.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:09:52.2 |
It’s something you want to start seeing past. You want to start seeing past this but this…this is what it’s almost like a fog in some ways. |
152 |
| 00:10:02.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:10:03.3 |
It’s hard to see past it. [rustling of sheet] So that’s what I would say. |
152 |
| 00:10:07.4 |
Okay. ‘Cause that there are really vivid images, aren’t they? They’re kind of different. There’s the black hole and then there’s the fog. |
IJS |
| 00:10:17.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:10:18.5 |
So is it, um, is the black hole then suggesting a density of the fear ahead? |
IJS |
| 00:10:25.0 |
Yeah, I think it’s the density of that fear. I think, you know, when you think of it, it’s kind of like [sharp intake of breath] but it is…it is this unknown fear. I think you develop that when you start getting to, you know, your twenties or something, this fear. Or maybe that’s just something in the sort of creative subjects. Im not… I don’t know because, you know, you want to be fulfilled in your life, but at the same time, you know, you’ve got to live, so I think that’s a… |
152 |
| 00:10:51.4 |
Uh-huh. Okay. And what about the fog element of it then? |
IJS |
| 00:10:55.7 |
Pardon? |
152 |
| 00:10:56.6 |
What about the fog element of that? |
IJS |
| 00:10:58.8 |
The fog…the fog is… [rustling of sheet] the fog is just sort of not allowing you to, like I said, to see past this. |
152 |
| 00:11:09.0 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:11:09.3 |
‘Cause there’s the fear but then there’s the fogginess and that allows you to sort of… You want to see past and think, ‘Ooh, this is a possibility,’ but it’s…it’s clouding your view. |
152 |
| 00:11:18.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:11:18.6 |
That’s…that’s what the fear does. It clouds your view and makes you blind in some ways. |
152 |
| 00:11:23.7 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:11:23.9 |
To not really see past it. |
152 |
| 00:11:25.2 |
Yeah. And on the other side of that, what you can’t really see past… |
IJS |
| 00:11:30.7 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:11:31.1 |
…what do you hope then is… Photography? |
IJS |
| 00:11:35.1 |
Yeah. Or something related to photography, like maybe like a publishing company that deals with photobooks or something, so you’d still have that graphic design element, which I love, but at the same time you’re dealing with photographs and also there’s the opportunity to really develop yourself and speak to people that are also interested in that. |
152 |
| 00:11:55.7 |
Okay. Well let’s go into your profession then. |
IJS |
| 00:12:00.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:12:01.1 |
What, um, within this area, how big is that profession? What shape is it in this area? |
IJS |
| 00:12:10.0 |
What do you mean? What, after education? |
152 |
| 00:12:12.4 |
Yeah. So after your education now. It’s stepping out into your profession. How much of the remainder of your life is that filling? What are the boundaries of it like? |
IJS |
| 00:12:28.2 |
I’ve always thought of it as you’ve been in education since you were like four or five years’ old and it’s been something…unless, you know, you might have a part-time job, it’s never been like your job now. So it’s almost something I can’t almost imagine a little bit. I just…it’s…some scary thing. It’s like completely unknown. I can’t envisage it at all, so… |
152 |
| 00:12:53.6 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:12:54.3 |
…this is just…[rustling of sheet] like I said, you go through this education, this bit, this primary school, and then through to secondary, Foundation. So it’s all this and then I feel like you get to this point here… |
152 |
| 00:13:14.3 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:13:14.5 |
…it’s almost like at the end of… [rustling of sheet] the end of the street a little bit, the end of the street or the end…end of a road. The end…the end of something a little bit. |
152 |
| 00:13:29.5 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:13:29.9 |
But there’s…there’s something behind it that you just…you just don’t know what it is. So it’s this thing here or it’s almost possibly like a leap of faith a little bit. You get here and then it’s, you know, ‘What is this? I don’t know.’ |
152 |
| 00:13:44.8 |
Uh-huh. Okay. Um, and so, um, in terms of… That’s education. Can you mark that on there? The education? |
IJS |
| 00:13:54.3 |
Okay. |
152 |
| 00:13:54.5 |
Um. |
IJS |
| 00:13:56.5 |
Education. So this is education. And this is a step into the unknown. |
152 |
| 00:14:04.1 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:14:07.3 |
[rustling of sheet] You know, you can’t, you can’t see past this. |
152 |
| 00:14:18.6 |
So, um, we’ll come back to that very point. I first want to ask you about… We’ve got your domains now. So we’ve got education, um, there. |
IJS |
| 00:14:38.8 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:14:40.2 |
Um. Your, um, wider life, kind of foggy. |
IJS |
| 00:14:44.5 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:14:45.2 |
It’s also kind of black. |
IJS |
| 00:14:48.0 |
Yeah! [laughing] |
152 |
| 00:14:48.2 |
[unclear] Um, but not despairing. Just, ‘What’s there?’ Um. And then there’s this barrier and your profession, whatever that will be. |
IJS |
| 00:14:59.9 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:15:01.1 |
And on here, you’ve talked about this industry. |
IJS |
| 00:15:06.3 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:15:07.6 |
Your industry, I want you to characterise it on here for me. We’re going to name it. What industry are you in or hope to be in? What shape does it have on here? What boundaries does it have, this industry, when you look at it from here? |
IJS |
| 00:15:27.5 |
Mm. |
152 |
| 00:15:28.8 |
What does the industry look like? |
IJS |
| 00:15:30.3 |
What does the industry look like? |
152 |
| 00:15:34.1 |
And where does it… |
IJS |
| 00:15:36.3 |
Industry looks like an office. So it’s something very robust and, like, conforming. |
152 |
| 00:15:44.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:15:45.9 |
Erm. I’m trying to think of a shape. So I guess I actually sometimes see it as, like, just something that…it’s something that is just a box, to be honest. There isn’t much… There isn’t any… There isn’t any, like, definition to it. That’s the… It’s just you see it as possibly, bit bleak [rustling of sheet]… myself working in an office or something. Even if it was really nice or whatever. It’s very straightforward. Like, I never envisioned myself kind of being out doing that, which is weird because that is a possibility. |
152 |
| 00:16:20.5 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:16:20.9 |
So I think I actually have a very, almost quite a bleak view and quite, um…it’s going to be quite ordered. I see industry as being very ordered. |
152 |
| 00:16:29.5 |
Yeah. It’s ordered, it’s square. |
IJS |
| 00:16:32.6 |
It’s square. It’s a square, exactly. It’s square. That’s how I see it, I guess. |
152 |
| 00:16:36.3 |
Okay. What about the boundaries of it? What are they like? |
IJS |
| 00:16:41.4 |
The boundaries…? Um, I think the boundaries are just very… They’re very thick, like a concrete structure. [rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:16:50.2 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:16:53.2 |
Concrete. Structure. [rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:16:56.5 |
Uh-huh. And very thick? |
IJS |
| 00:16:59.3 |
Yeah. Very. So it’s not…it’s not these walls that are flimsy that you could… |
152 |
| 00:17:06.5 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:17:06.8 |
…you know, push down. It’s like, that’s it |
152 |
| 00:17:10.7 |
Okay. And there’s one more thing about that industry. It’s the name of it. |
IJS |
| 00:17:19.2 |
The name. |
152 |
| 00:17:21.1 |
Yeah. Your industry. |
IJS |
| 00:17:23.3 |
Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know what it is. Um. What is the industry? I don’t know what the name is. [laughing] I really don’t know. Sorry. |
152 |
| 00:17:37.7 |
No. [laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:17:40.1 |
If I thought about it and what… What do you mean by sort of naming something? Like… |
152 |
| 00:17:48.8 |
Um. So I guess the…the name of this place… So I notice there’s a bit of an absence, since it’s kind of [art of a university]… |
IJS |
| 00:18:00.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:18:00.8 |
…but you can still see on the website it’s [a] college of art and design. |
IJS |
| 00:18:08.9 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:18:09.5 |
There’s indications from its older days that it’s a college of art and design. |
IJS |
| 00:18:14.1 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:18:14.7 |
But at the moment, um, on the main site, it’s [named]. |
IJS |
| 00:18:19.8 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:18:20.8 |
And there’s some significance to that. |
IJS |
| 00:18:24.7 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:18:25.2 |
It’s saying something else. So people talk about ‘the industry’ a lot but we…we…we…I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing. |
IJS |
| 00:18:36.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:18:36.9 |
So it’s about, um, so some people talk about the industry [unclear] graphic design and others talk about the fashion industry… |
IJS |
| 00:18:47.3 |
Oh, I see. |
152 |
| 00:18:48.2 |
…and some are talking about graphic design industry. Some, uh, don’t see it like that at all and have similar, um, feelings to you about it. The…the… I don’t know. |
IJS |
| 00:19:04.6 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:19:05.3 |
It’s something wider. And that’s again, is there some name you could give this industry that you are going in or hope to be in? What’s the closest you’d get to naming it? |
IJS |
| 00:19:24.7 |
I’m thinking… Are we giving it a word as in, like, towards the industry or, like you said, this is ‘design industry’, this is ‘fashion industry’, whatever? |
152 |
| 00:19:36.9 |
You could do them both. So whatever you want. You know, whatever is strongest to you when you think about it. |
IJS |
| 00:19:44.2 |
I think of it… This isn’t the word I want to use but I think of it as almost like conformity. |
152 |
| 00:19:50.6 |
Okay. |
IJS |
| 00:19:52.6 |
So I don’t…I don’t know if that’s the right word… |
152 |
| 00:19:55.7 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:19:57.1 |
…to use. It’s like heading along the same, the right lines or something. [rustling of sheet] So I’ll put that down. |
152 |
| 00:20:04.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:20:04.9 |
And if I think of something else, like… |
152 |
| 00:20:06.9 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:20:07.2 |
It’s…it’s the industry of conforming? |
152 |
| 00:20:19.3 |
Yeah. Yeah. That’s the strongest you’re… |
IJS |
| 00:20:23.2 |
That’s quite strong actually. Conformity. |
152 |
| 00:20:23.3 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:20:23.6 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:20:24.8 |
Okay. Okay. Good. So that’s some interesting stuff here. We’ve got, um, your education there, your wider life, uh, professional life and then this industry. |
IJS |
| 00:20:39.6 |
Mm. |
152 |
| 00:20:40.0 |
And so I’m thinking, what are the, um, relationships between these, um? What I want to think about first is your graphics education, which I think…was it about there with Foundation? |
IJS |
| 00:20:55.6 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:20:57.3 |
Um. The thresholds from one place to another and the threshold of getting into graphic design education. |
IJS |
| 00:21:05.8 |
Okay. |
152 |
| 00:21:06.0 |
What did that feel like to you, getting in? Where does it belong on here, that entrance into graphic education? |
IJS |
| 00:21:17.3 |
[rustling of sheet] I think it’s actually… I’ve put that is the end point, but actually there was a certain end point here as well. |
152 |
| 00:21:28.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:21:28.9 |
Like it was quite… My Foundation was quite significant, but it was sort of… It was not necessarily education. It’s having…it’s just being here, coming to London, being surrounded by all these ideas and… |
152 |
| 00:21:43.8 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:21:43.9 |
…broadening your mind. So I feel like [rustling of sheet] when…when you’re at school, you…it’s like… Yeah, it’s actually quite weird actually. When you’re at school you’re kind of conforming. But you also don’t… No one knows who they are a little bit. It’s sort of like you’re squashed into just all sort of being… So it’s [unclear] ’cause I think when you’re younger you don’t actually recognise who they are. |
152 |
| 00:22:05.5 |
Mm. |
IJS |
| 00:22:06.1 |
But then there’s a certain liberation you get from then going into design and actually thinking for yourself. That’s actually quite important, I think. |
152 |
| 00:22:17.3 |
So that’s quite interesting, that you’ve got conformity industry out there and there’s conformity in the first bit of education then… |
IJS |
| 00:22:25.7 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but something goes into being a little bit more liberated. |
152 |
| 00:22:32.5 |
So is that what you’d describe that threshold as? Liberation then? |
IJS |
| 00:22:36.8 |
Liberation… What’s the word liberation? Is it becomes…like, like you said these shapes here are something very robust, where actually this, it would be more this shape. [rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:22:48.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:22:49.4 |
It’s…it’s more malleable. If that makes any sense… |
152 |
| 00:22:53.0 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:22:53.3 |
…rather than mm, mm, mm, this. But also I feel like this [rustling of sheet] always leads to the fear of this. |
152 |
| 00:23:00.3 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:23:01.7 |
It’s like, ‘Oh yeah, this is nice,’ but where’s the balance? |
152 |
| 00:23:04.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:23:05.6 |
Where’s that balance between work mobility and developing that more conceptual side of yourself? Right, then that’s really…like a…it’s like a…you know those scale things, what are they? That things that they go up and they go down. |
152 |
| 00:23:20.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:23:22.8 |
So it’s just all…it’s always out of balance. But yeah, I think that’s quite interesting, how this is quite robust but actually this section here… |
152 |
| 00:23:29.6 |
So that’s your early education… |
IJS |
| 00:23:32.7 |
…I’ll put, yeah. Early education. |
152 |
| 00:23:34.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:23:35.2 |
And this could be Foundation. |
152 |
| 00:23:37.5 |
Yeah. And it’s got an ethereal quality that…that… It’s almost as though the important part of that was the edges had changed. |
IJS |
| 00:23:49.8 |
Yeah, the edges are really… Yeah. How would you put that? The edges…edges… [rustling of sheet] Yeah, the edges are like that. |
152 |
| 00:24:01.6 |
So is that what this tension’s about, when you talk about the edges have changed to something, um, curvier… |
IJS |
| 00:24:09.8 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:24:11.0 |
…and more malleable. |
IJS |
| 00:24:12.3 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:24:12.7 |
And yet you see industry… |
IJS |
| 00:24:16.0 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:24:16.1 |
…as having the fixed edges again. |
IJS |
| 00:24:18.2 |
Yeah. So it’s about… You see that narrows that a little bit? |
152 |
| 00:24:21.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:24:22.6 |
These…these two shapes? |
152 |
| 00:24:23.8 |
This is there. What… |
IJS |
| 00:24:26.1 |
These are parallel curves. |
152 |
| 00:24:27.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:24:30.2 |
[rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:24:36.0 |
Good. So that’s kind of liberation. |
IJS |
| 00:24:38.6 |
Uh-huh. |
152 |
| 00:24:40.1 |
But the boundaries are changing in a sense. |
IJS |
| 00:24:44.2 |
Yeah, the boundary’s changing. |
152 |
| 00:24:45.1 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:24:45.5 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:24:45.6 |
Okay. That was coming into graphics education. So now you’ve got a few months ahead… |
IJS |
| 00:24:53.0 |
Mm. |
152 |
| 00:24:53.6 |
And then, dot, dot, dot. |
IJS |
| 00:24:55.7 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:24:56.7 |
It’s that point now that I think you’ve drawn a… What is that? It’s a line but what does it represent, that…that journey onwards? |
IJS |
| 00:25:06.4 |
It represents the unknown but it also represents…almost like…almost like opening a door. Like, I don’t know. This is what comes to mind. Have you ever seen the film… It’s got… Who’s the guy in…that film? You know [unclear]? What’s his name? The comedian. |
152 |
| 00:25:34.0 |
Um. Is it [unclear]? No. |
IJS |
| 00:25:39.2 |
Sorry, this is really annoying me now. He’s been in ‘The Grinch’ but he was also in… |
152 |
| 00:25:45.4 |
Jim Carrey? |
IJS |
| 00:25:45.6 |
Jim Carrey, that’s it. |
152 |
| 00:25:46.3 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:25:46.8 |
And then he did this film but it was like where he was filmed constantly, but he didn’t realise. He was told his life was a film set. |
152 |
| 00:25:55.0 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:25:55.5 |
Have you seen that film? |
152 |
| 00:25:56.4 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:25:56.8 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really annoying me. He literally lived his life in this film set. |
152 |
| 00:26:01.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:26:03.2 |
And he’s being filmed. And suddenly he realises that actually, you know, this isn’t real and then he starts saying [unclear] he gets to the end of this wall, which is sky and it’s all been an illusion, and then the last scene is him just sort of opening this door. |
152 |
| 00:26:19.8 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:26:20.3 |
But I think that’s interesting because that just suddenly came to mind, so it’s like this is education there, it’s all been the same throughout your whole life… |
152 |
| 00:26:26.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:26:26.7 |
…and suddenly you get to the end and it’s like I said, that barrier there is like a door, I guess. So I’ll put it on here. I feel like that’s really obvious but… |
152 |
| 00:26:34.3 |
No, no. It’s a door. It’s…it’s also, by that analogy, it’s also a door that looks like sky. |
IJS |
| 00:26:44.6 |
Yeah, exactly. |
152 |
| 00:26:45.6 |
yeah. [laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:26:48.0 |
I’ll put that on. I’ll write that in there. |
152 |
| 00:26:54.7 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:26:59.7 |
‘The Truman Show’, that’s it. |
152 |
| 00:27:01.5 |
That’s the one. |
IJS |
| 00:27:02.8 |
[laughing] ‘The Truman Show’. Yeah, that’s it. |
152 |
| 00:27:10.2 |
Okay. So you…so… So that’s got an element of hope there that… |
IJS |
| 00:27:16.6 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:27:16.7 |
…you’ll get to this point… |
IJS |
| 00:27:17.7 |
Yeah, it’s like, ‘What’s going to happen?’ ‘Cause that’s the end of the film and you don’t know what happens. |
152 |
| 00:27:20.9 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:27:21.1 |
And that…that’s how I see it, I think. |
152 |
| 00:27:22.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:27:23.2 |
It’s not something I can go, ‘Oh, this could happen, that could happen.’ |
152 |
| 00:27:26.6 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:27:27.1 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:27:29.0 |
Um. But it’s kind of an optimistic film, isn’t it? |
IJS |
| 00:27:34.0 |
Yeah, that’s true, yeah. |
152 |
| 00:27:35.3 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:27:36.1 |
So yeah, optimistic, I guess. |
152 |
| 00:27:39.1 |
Is there any transitions, you know, the threshold into education, coming out. Are there any transitions or thresholds that I’ve not mentioned? |
IJS |
| 00:27:51.1 |
Any transitions? Mm. |
152 |
| 00:27:56.4 |
What about this? What’s that? |
IJS |
| 00:27:57.6 |
That was the highlights. |
152 |
| 00:27:59.3 |
Yeah. [unclear] |
IJS |
| 00:28:04.2 |
The highlight was broadening your mind. [rustling of sheet] How you’d be broadening your mind, like by yourself, not necessarily through influence of others. |
152 |
| 00:28:23.3 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:28:23.8 |
So broadening your mind individually. |
152 |
| 00:28:25.4 |
It’s a very important difference that, isn’t it? |
IJS |
| 00:28:27.8 |
Yeah, because it’s not necessary, ‘Oh, I’ve broadened my mind ’cause my tutor told me this.’ |
152 |
| 00:28:31.4 |
No. |
IJS |
| 00:28:31.7 |
But about the actual [unclear] from that. |
152 |
| 00:28:37.7 |
Is it curiosity? You became self… |
IJS |
| 00:28:39.4 |
Became curious? I was curious already. |
152 |
| 00:28:42.8 |
Yeah? |
IJS |
| 00:28:44.2 |
Curious. Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:28:49.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:28:51.1 |
Becoming curious, developing myself [rustling of sheet], developing yourself. |
152 |
| 00:29:09.9 |
Good. Okay. So this is…this… So you already became curious. You’re heading towards this door. |
IJS |
| 00:29:20.7 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:29:21.6 |
Curiously! |
IJS |
| 00:29:22.1 |
Yeah, that’s true. [laughing] |
152 |
| 00:29:24.0 |
You are hoping that [rustling of sheet], well you feel an optimism? |
IJS |
| 00:29:29.5 |
Yeah. It’s weird ’cause I say optimistic now about industry, ’cause it’s like actually… |
152 |
| 00:29:36.3 |
So what does that mean? Industry? |
IJS |
| 00:29:37.6 |
[laughing] |
152 |
| 00:29:37.8 |
It’s interesting, isn’t it? |
IJS |
| 00:29:39.4 |
I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know. To be honest, I say I’m optimistic but at the same time I think getting a job next year, it is kind of this a little bit. But then there’s a possibility of something else. Do you know what I mean? |
152 |
| 00:29:54.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:29:55.4 |
Like I say, like I see the possibilities here and the potential of photography, as in I see every day as being in the office, but why not… There are possibilities. You can get out and about doing all these things and that’s…that’s exciting, a bit of fun. You can’t see past it at the moment, you can’t see past the door. |
152 |
| 00:30:17.3 |
Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds as though the optimism through that door… |
IJS |
| 00:30:22.8 |
Is more of a possibility. |
152 |
| 00:30:25.2 |
It’s a possibility and it’s about avoiding that, in a way. |
IJS |
| 00:30:31.9 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:30:32.7 |
Is that avoiding industry or that version of industry, do you think? |
IJS |
| 00:30:38.3 |
Yeah, avoiding that version because I think that…that actually would appeal to a lot of people. |
152 |
| 00:30:43.8 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:30:44.5 |
This…you know, like you said, a lot of design companies you go in on the computer and they get their little copy and it’s all swish and got all their books which they can take for reference, but at the same time there’s actually something a little bit suffocating about it at the same time. But I think, you know, that’s perfect for other people. |
152 |
| 00:31:01.9 |
Yeah. And that looks, doesn’t it, when you take a picture of the students that have been through here, um, and…and you go in and it looks kind of roomy… |
IJS |
| 00:31:13.7 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:14.3 |
…the essence of it is, like you say, it’s dressed differently. |
IJS |
| 00:31:18.5 |
Yeah. Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:19.3 |
But that’s still, yeah. And you don’t want to be in that space then? |
IJS |
| 00:31:24.8 |
No. Well like I said, there’s a balance of it. |
152 |
| 00:31:27.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:31:27.7 |
And you have a few days in the office… |
152 |
| 00:31:30.4 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:31:30.7 |
…and then you’re out and about. I don’t know. |
152 |
| 00:31:33.7 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:31:34.1 |
I’ll just have to see. |
152 |
| 00:31:35.2 |
Which…which does imply your photography, doesn’t it? Because… |
IJS |
| 00:31:38.3 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:38.9 |
…um, because that’s where you take your images. |
IJS |
| 00:31:43.9 |
Yeah, and then you get…yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:47.0 |
That’s interesting. So, it is, uh, maybe a year away, that… |
IJS |
| 00:31:54.4 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:54.9 |
…that revealing. |
IJS |
| 00:31:56.1 |
Yeah. |
152 |
| 00:31:56.8 |
Um. How can you best use this…these remaining months then, to increase the chance of what’s being through that door? |
IJS |
| 00:32:11.6 |
Like I said, this is, um, uh…so that’s industry. [rustling of sheet] Employability. And this is personal and conceptual. |
152 |
| 00:32:30.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:31.6 |
And I feel, to get to that point where it’s a bit more optimistic, you have to be trying to blank out this, even though you know that leads to a job and whatever. |
152 |
| 00:32:48.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:48.3 |
Try and just eliminate this…the black…the fear, basically. |
152 |
| 00:32:53.2 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:32:53.6 |
Just try to…just be, like, ‘Right, listen to myself. What do I want to do?’ |
152 |
| 00:32:57.8 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:32:58.1 |
And I feel like that’s…that’s how people do get to do what they want to do. It’s not by conforming, it’s by being like, ‘This is what I want to do.’ That’s how they make a mark for themselves. |
152 |
| 00:33:08.5 |
Right. |
IJS |
| 00:33:09.2 |
It’s…it’s…it’s listening, listening to this part, listening to this part of the weighing scale. |
152 |
| 00:33:15.3 |
And that part is…what? Your inner voice? |
IJS |
| 00:33:22.0 |
Inner voice, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, inner voice. |
152 |
| 00:33:31.5 |
Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:33:33.6 |
I used to think, like, at the same time maybe you’re, like, deluding yourself a little bit. Like, let’s say you did do something that was more conceptual or something and then you bring your parents for your final degree show to graphic design. ‘Oh, I’ve brought something about graphic design in it!’ They’d be like, ‘What the bloody hell have you been doing?!’ [laughing] |
152 |
| 00:33:50.9 |
[laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:33:51.7 |
That’s what I always think. |
152 |
| 00:33:57.0 |
Would that matter to you, if both your parents turned up to your degree show? |
IJS |
| 00:33:59.7 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It scares me. |
152 |
| 00:34:02.1 |
[unclear, yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:34:02.3 |
It’s funny because I went on the [unclear] training this summer… |
152 |
| 00:34:06.2 |
Uh-huh. |
IJS |
| 00:34:06.6 |
…and there was one of my friends who took loads of holiday snaps but I took, like, pictures of just, like the most random things, like, what is little leaves growing, a bit of rubbish on the floor, and she was like, ‘Can I see what you took?’ and I was like, ‘Oh my God, no!’ [laughing] |
152 |
| 00:34:21.3 |
[laughing] |
IJS |
| 00:34:22.5 |
‘It’s a secret!’ [laughing] |
152 |
| 00:34:23.0 |
[unclear]. Yeah. |
IJS |
| 00:34:27.0 |
So it’s that kind of thing. |
152 |
| 00:34:28.3 |
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But… So it sounds as though your inner voice is also somehow ignoring what you’re doing… |
IJS |
| 00:34:44.1 |
Yes. Listen to your inner voice! It has to be…it has to be some ignoring… [rustling of sheet] |
152 |
| 00:35:00.1 |
Yeah. Good luck with- |
IJS |
