24:32.8 [I’d call it the] Creative communication industry because… there are so many things that are creative… Being a mathematician’s creative, you know: being a scientist… it’s just different kinds of creativity… I don’t think that the edge has a shape… I think it’s kind of… [blurred]. Because… I often take something in a project that I arrange from science or something… so this is the creative industry and this is the maths industry: there’s a connection… There are other industries branching off… I did a lot of illustration work… a lot of film work and stuff. And so we see that there are spaces to learn which kind of meld with both.