20:50.8 I feel that industry… is not… necessarily a group of all design companies. There could be designers in companies outside… like in-house departments… so like it would be something similarly scattered in this space… So it sometimes comes together with my career, sometimes it wouldn’t. I think that’s how we kind of learn… how to get better in your industry is like you go in and out.

24:49.2 ‘Challenge’ sounds too… optimistic because I’m not that optimistic at the moment… each of them could happen differently… ‘disturbing’… I just wrote ‘dreams’… because sometimes it may not be… attainable… On this one I wrote ‘gate’… it can be an entrance into something more interesting.