01:06.9 It’s kind of like my radar. Looking out over whatever’s to come… Particularly not… focused… There’s ‘The Image’… Like an eye… the other side of the circle… ‘Why am I doing this?’ And that’s, like, confusing… It exists… somewhere in my head. Like that cloud… That’s always seen as… the destination to go to − ‘The Image’… the picture. I can only explain why in words… until it becomes an image and then it needs the ‘why’. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense. 05:07.0 I guess the challenge is myself. It’s…challenging the way I work; It’s… other people… challenging the way you work. Maybe feeling a bit boxed-in… The purpose of the course in the first place puts the box around what I want to do… the imposed purpose. Like this box is made for you because you’re a graphic designer… [but] over time… I’ve made myself question why this box is here. ‘Cause there’s always someone else in design… They’re like the brief, like the anonymous brand sort of thing… the aspiration of something, you’re trying to fulfil that aspiration. It’s like selling to people. It’s like the empty kind of desire… money kind of drives that. 10:51.9 It’s set out as a challenge worth achieving [but]… I don’t see what that achieves. Apart from more money. But graphics can be… beautiful as well… you can’t escape the image. That’s why it’s a box. I’ve had, like, approval from people… saying, like, ‘Well done.’

29:01.5 [Entering graphic education] was fun… knowing that these things are thought about… like the reveal. The curtain… this was made by someone for this purpose… Before there was some kind of veil over the eye. And now that’s been lifted off. So it’s… learning yourself. And that’s, like, really, really cool. [Leaving graphics education]… it’s quite a lot of following. It’s… [taking] the most-trodden path. Until you find how to get on the other path… I like the circle until it gets too big and once you’ve… absorbed enough then you can… make a hole in it. So I guess it’s… it’s finding the hole out… I think you need to sit inside something for long enough to get bored. Or realise that there’s, like, something else… following people, or the way people have done it before. 33:30.2 It’s just reiterating the stories that you hear from people. There’s always that bit where they say, ‘Oh yeah, I wanted to do my own design agency so I said, ‘Fuck it, and I did it.’ And then that’s… why they’re here in the first place. They wouldn’t be here if they were just talking about their five-year history going from… one design agency to another, doing a bit of… fluff here and there. Getting… an award or two. It’s… the moment they step outside the norms.

35:18.8 I don’t really know if it’s worth… making a window or making a hole, so to speak… in the box… I don’t know which one… looking out and just waiting for the right moment or just stepping out of it. I don’t know how to measure… the value of… time remaining [in education]… The hole is scarier than the window. I’m already in the box [so]… it’s nicer just to look out the window and think about doing stuff later on… Or to start having some sort of confidence. I don’t know. There’s like, a confidence factor. 40:20.6 It’s all been quite linear − going to school, going to college and then going to university and then… you’ll go to a placement and then you’ll go to design industry… And then maybe you’ll get an award… and perhaps in five years’ time you’ll come back and do a talk at the university. It does feel positive but… I’ve never really felt that I’ve done great work or anything like that. Haven’t really won any awards… You just kind of meander along with everyone else. It just feels like you can keep your head above the water, just… Pretty much the only reason I came here was because of the poster on the wall of my college… I have really enjoyed doing this but sometimes it just seems a bit daunting that when you leave uni, you don’t really have the freedom to choose stuff necessarily and then it becomes… money-orientated… As soon as I leave uni, the choices will be really, really wide and then I know… it’s going to be narrower and narrower and narrower and narrower.